To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes

AP classes are full of “nonsense and stuff like CRT?”

Some places, yes. Here in Arizona the Tucson Unified School District (TUSD) started a program in one high school that was supposedly an AP set of classes called "Raza Studies." It was nothing but a racist, radicalization and indoctrination of students into the furthest of Leftist radicalism and crazy. It eventually got shut down and the proponents were even tossed out of court. It was so bad, so obvious, that the state even passed a law prohibiting such classes in the future.

Here's a site advocating for it and courses like it back when it was still in place.

Protecting the Prickly: La Raza Studies
https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/p...s program. “Everything-for-the Race” Pedagogy

Raza Studies
The Public Option for Educational Revolution

https://uapress.arizona.edu/book/raza-studies

"Raza Studies" Defy American Values
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/raza-studies-defy-american-values/

Tom Horne testifies in Tucson Unified ethnic-studies trial
https://tucson.com/news/local/tom-h...cle_9ce14a85-56bb-544c-bc32-75f98e077aba.html

It was as radical as you could get in a classroom

The students were encouraged to act out, do civil disobedience, and protest everything, like this protest where they forcibly took over a school board meeting and chaining themselves to the chairs...

AP my ass. Oh, their statistics on the "success" of these classes were made up fictions when you looked through them.
 
Meatball Ron announced today he is doing away with AP classes.

A number of posts ITT and you still haven't addressed the OP. Is it because you don't agree with what they're doing and want to deflect? Are you afraid to admit you agree with it? You made reference to pursuing an anti-racist agenda yesterday and this is what it would look like in action. You like it in theory but not in action?
 
He says there are alternatives to traditional AP programs that might be even more effective and relevant than the traditional programs in use today. One of them them is the INTERNATIONAL (and we should really look into how they do it internationally, because we’re sucking hind tit here in the U S of A) baccalaureate something or other, where students can test out of their subjects and get AP credit. Advanced gender and race studies should be reserved for college students who don’t want or need jobs. Time to go to work kids!

What fucking alternatives?
 
So by not address the subject, I assume you agree with it. In that scenario wouldn't doing away with AP classes also be an anti-racist policy moving towards equity? Black and LatinX students are far underrepresented in AP classes (just as honor classes). So why should other kids get additional resources that black and brown kids don't? It's the same reason we push to remove merit based admissions for top public schools. You want to pursue an anti-racist agenda then equity has to be at the forefront and elite classes for a select few only bring about more inequality.

Where I live, in the Mesquite TX ISD district, used to offer both Honors Classes and AP classes. They do not offer honors classes anymore either!

They simply just call them all AP courses now.

They did this to end confusion that parents, students, and the school administration had about the differences between them.

So, I must ask- Is the School district you are talking about, doing away with AP courses as well?

Thanks!
 
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Wait what?

wait-what-meme.jpg


So the leftists do not want AP Courses? I thought that was supposedly a DeSantis thing...
 
The smart kids are being taught that school is a boring waste of time. If they want to learn they must do it on their own.
 
The mistake is not in offering level-appropriate classes but in using unfortunate, devisive terms like "honors classes."
 
Wait what?

wait-what-meme.jpg


So the leftists do not want AP Courses? I thought that was supposedly a DeSantis thing...

I think Archives response is telling. (I use his response because while he’s a Democrat I don’t think he’s an ideologue and he has discussions in good faith.)

He views this as sort of a right-wing conspiracy and right-wing cherry picking while being completely unaware of the support this has in (black) progressive circles. In his defense he’s an older white guy. It’s understandable he may not be up on this movement.

But it points out the disconnect (him thinking this equity movement is a conspiracy).
 
A lot of talk about the dumbing down of education. Does this action fit in that category?




To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes

Supporters say uniform classes create rigor for all students but critics say cuts hurt faster learners


A group of parents stepped to the lectern Tuesday night at a school board meeting in this middle-class, Los Angeles-area city to push back against a racial-equity initiative. The high school, they argued, should reinstate honors English classes that were eliminated because they didn’t enroll enough Black and Latino students.

The district earlier this school year replaced the honors classes at Culver City High School with uniform courses that officials say will ensure students of all races receive an equal, rigorous education.

These parents disagreed.

“We really feel equity means offering opportunities to students of diverse backgrounds, not taking away opportunities for advanced education and study,” Joanna Schaenman, a Culver City parent who helped spearhead the effort, said in the run-up to the meeting.

The parental pushback in Culver City mirrors resistance that has taken place in Wisconsin, Rhode Island and elsewhere in California over the last year in response to schools stripping away the honors designation on some high school classes.

School districts doing away with honors classes argue students who don’t take those classes from a young age start to see themselves in a different tier, and come to think they aren’t capable of enrolling in Advanced Placement classes that help with college admissions. Black and Latino students are underrepresented in AP enrollment in the majority of states, according to the Education Trust, a nonprofit that studies equity in education.

Since the start of this school year, freshmen and sophomores in Culver City have only been able to select one level of English class, known as College Prep, rather than the previous system in which anyone could opt into the honors class. School officials say the goal is to teach everyone with an equal level of rigor, one that encourages them to enroll in advanced classes in their final years of high school.

“Parents say academic excellence should not be experimented with for the sake of social justice,” said Quoc Tran, the superintendent of 6,900-student Culver City Unified School District. But, he said, “it was very jarring when teachers looked at their AP enrollment and realized Black and brown kids were not there. They felt obligated to do something.”

Culver City English teachers presented data at a board meeting last year showing Latino students made up 13% of those in 12th-grade Advanced Placement English, compared with 37% of the student body. Asian students were 34% of the advanced class, compared with 10% of students. Black students represented 14% of AP English, versus 15% of the student body.

The board saw anonymous quotes from students not enrolled in honors classes saying they felt less motivated or successful. One described students feeling “unable to break out of the molds that they established when they were 11.”

Tuesday marked Ms. Schaenman’s first time attending a school board meeting in person in years. She wandered the hallways of City Hall with fellow parent Pedro Frigola looking for the right room, clutching a stack of copies laying out the two-page resolution they and a few dozen other parents are asking the board to adopt.

Mr. Frigola said he disagrees with the district’s view of equity. “I was born in Cuba, and it doesn’t sound good when people are trying to achieve equal outcomes for everyone,” he said.

His ninth-grade daughter, Emma Frigola, said she was surprised and a little confused by the decision to remove honors, which she had wanted to take. She said her English teacher, who used to teach the honors class, is trying to maintain a higher standard, but that it doesn’t always seem to be working.

“There are some people who slow down the pace because they don’t really do anything and aren’t looking to try harder,” Emma said. “I don’t think you can force that into people.”

For a unit on research, Emma said her teacher gathered all the reference sources they needed to write a paper on whether graffiti is art or vandalism and had students review them together in class. Her sister, Elena Frigola, now in 11th grade, said prior honors English students chose their own topics and did research independently.

In Santa Monica, Calif., high school English teachers said last year they had “a moral imperative” to eliminate honors English classes that they viewed as perpetuating inequality. The teachers studied the issue for a year and a half, a district representative said.

“This is not a social experiment,” board member Jon Kean said at a meeting last spring. “This is a sound pedagogical approach to education.”

Gail Pinsker, a Santa Monica-Malibu Unified School District spokeswoman, said the shift this school year “has increased access and provided excellent educational experiences for all of our students.”

Several school districts have scaled back plans to eliminate honors classes after community opposition. San Diego’s Patrick Henry High School planned to eliminate 11th-grade honors American literature and U.S. history last year, but reinstated both after listening to students and families, a district spokeswoman said.

The school district in Madison, Wis., pulled back on plans last year to remove stand-alone honors classes and now lets students earn an honors label within general classes. A Rhode Island district made a similar move.

Those who support cutting honors classes point out that the curriculum of honors courses often doesn’t differ substantially from regular classes. Honors classes often move at a faster pace and the students complete more assignments. Some can boost grade-point averages or give students an advantage when applying for college.

Critics say attempting to teach everyone at an elevated level isn’t realistic and that teachers, even with the best intentions, may end up simplifying instruction. Instead, some educators and parents argue schools should find more ways to diversify honors courses and encourage students to enroll who aren’t self-selecting, including proactively reaching out to students, using an opt-out system, or looking to teacher recommendations.

“I just don’t see how removing something from some kids all of a sudden helps other kids learn faster,” said Scott Peters, a senior research scientist at education research nonprofit NWEA who has studied equity in gifted and talented programs.

In Culver City, Mr. Tran said he isn’t going to mandate that other departments move away from honors but that he would listen to any teacher-driven suggestions. As for English, he said he is throwing his support behind the high school’s teachers to try to elevate education for all students.

“We will keep moving forward,” he said.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-inc...lasses-d5985dee?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1

I'll have to agree with the parents here. My two youngest went to a small rural mostly-white h.s. Even though it was small, it offered honors and college-credit courses, given remotely via computer/television. Both of them took advantage of this and had college credits to their name in both mathematics and English when they graduated. It was sad how few other kids participated, but at least it was offered to those with aspirations.

It makes no sense to deprive intelligent, ambitious kids an opportunity because it might make the not-so-bright kids feel bad, or the kids whose parents can't afford the fee. (Which, if I recall, was less than half of the tuition charged by the college that gave the credit.)
 
But, when a Republican does this to eliminate classes filled with nonsense and stuff like CRT derived lesson plans, it's a horribly bad thing to the same people celebrating these classes elimination in the name of equity...

Read my post about the AP classes my daughters took in h.s. They were not "full of nonsense," unless you count Honors English and trigonometry as "nonsense." Given your political POV, you probably do.
 
He says there are alternatives to traditional AP programs that might be even more effective and relevant than the traditional programs in use today. One of them them is the INTERNATIONAL (and we should really look into how they do it internationally, because we’re sucking hind tit here in the U S of A) baccalaureate something or other, where students can test out of their subjects and get AP credit. Advanced gender and race studies should be reserved for college students who don’t want or need jobs. Time to go to work kids!

Exactly...https://www.wptv.com/news/state/gov...ollowing-african-american-studies-controversy
 
I'll have to agree with the parents here. My two youngest went to a small rural mostly-white h.s. Even though it was small, it offered honors and college-credit courses, given remotely via computer/television. Both of them took advantage of this and had college credits to their name in both mathematics and English when they graduated. It was sad how few other kids participated, but at least it was offered to those with aspirations.

It makes no sense to deprive intelligent, ambitious kids an opportunity because it might make the not-so-bright kids feel bad, or the kids whose parents can't afford the fee. (Which, if I recall, was less than half of the tuition charged by the college that gave the credit.)

There's a similar battle over (public) merit based high schools. People with money who have bright children can send them to elite private schools. But what about the families without money? I guess you can hope you get a scholarship at a private school. But if that's not an option then that's where merit schools (testing to get in) come in. For poor and working class kids these are a god send. But they too have come under fire based on equity in reason time frames.

So it goes back to the question you address. Should we have schools and classes that cater to our best and brightest and allow them to go at their own pace. Or does the push for equity trump that and we implement a more one size fits all model.
 
A lot of talk about the dumbing down of education. Does this action fit in that category?




To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes

Supporters say uniform classes create rigor for all students but critics say cuts hurt faster learners


A group of parents stepped to the lectern Tuesday night at a school board meeting in this middle-class, Los Angeles-area city to push back against a racial-equity initiative. The high school, they argued, should reinstate honors English classes that were eliminated because they didn’t enroll enough Black and Latino students.

The district earlier this school year replaced the honors classes at Culver City High School with uniform courses that officials say will ensure students of all races receive an equal, rigorous education.

These parents disagreed.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-inc...lasses-d5985dee?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1

We’ve had similar discussions here before. The bolded above is absolutely DUMB, STUPID AND SO IMPOSSIBLE TO ACCOMPLISH. Hopefully I said it loudly enough for the kids in the back.

Listen very closely: It is not possible to help ANY student reach his potential when you have to teach to the center. If you give me students from the lower third I can get them so much further when they are together than I can when you lump them into a class with advanced and median students. Similarly, the advanced kids are never going to go as far as they can go when teachers cannot challenge them because they’d be leaving 2/3 of the class behind.

Uniform courses providing a rigorous education … can’t happen.

This is an absolutely stupid thing to do. Yes, it is the “dumbing down” of education.
 
We’ve had similar discussions here before. The bolded above is absolutely DUMB, STUPID AND SO IMPOSSIBLE TO ACCOMPLISH. Hopefully I said it loudly enough for the kids in the back.

Listen very closely: It is not possible to help ANY student reach his potential when you have to teach to the center. If you give me students from the lower third I can get them so much further when they are together than I can when you lump them into a class with advanced and median students. Similarly, the advanced kids are never going to go as far as they can go when teachers cannot challenge them because they’d be leaving 2/3 of the class behind.

Uniform courses providing a rigorous education … can’t happen.

This is an absolutely stupid thing to do. Yes, it is the “dumbing down” of education.

To me man, what you are saying is 100. (I think the 100 is usually underlined a couple of times).

I'm trying to think what the counter argument will be. It might be there are those who are more advanced because of economic factors etc. and therefore those special classes get more resources and better teachers and it continues the (racial) inequality that has forever existed in our country. Thus the push to have all classes equal regardless of the 'skill' level of the student.

But I think you addressed the response well and is also the real world reality. We're all equal in the eyes of God, and because one student is 'smarter' than another student doesn't necessarily mean they are a better person but when it comes to teaching and how we structure the classroom not all kids are equal.
 
Read my post about the AP classes my daughters took in h.s. They were not "full of nonsense," unless you count Honors English and trigonometry as "nonsense." Given your political POV, you probably do.

Irrelevant to the topic at hand. Anecdote isn't evidence in any case...

But to the point you are trying to make, by no means are all AP / honors classes worthless. The problem arises when politics, particularly radical Leftist politics, takes control of these classes and turns them into another means to push their dogma and agenda rather than educate.
 
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