house passes health care bill 220-215

ZappasGuitar said:
Anyone remember the last time a President tried to slim down the military?

Remember Clinton ordering base closings across the nation?

Then remember what Republicans did to him?

They EXCORIATED him for trying to reduce the size of our military.

Maybe that's why no one else has tried?
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Obama cut some wasteful programs and was lambasted by the right for cutting defense spending even notwithstanding that he actually increased defense spending overall.
 
Chapdog said:
note that i said for what im paying already. I dont want an increase either. solution.. take as much away from military spending as we need for it.
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Again, the difference? I'd prefer a decrease so that I can afford my own rather than relying on the government for it. Cool, take it from the MIC, I'm good with that, but don't just reshuffle and make still more people dependent on the "benevolence" of government.
 
Damocles said:
Yet they still have a massive debt per capita, way, way over their GDP.
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I just checked CIA world factbook, and Ireland's public debt was something like 41.8% of their GDP, whereas our public debt is 60% of GDP.

So, not only are they spending the tax money on better, and more egalitarian priorities than us, they're managing their money better, relatively speaking.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Yeah, and just like every other nation that doesn't, they depend on those that do.
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Why aren't you demanding we cut military spending, and shrink our global military posture?

Oh, that's right. Because you republicans love massive military spending, and you love wars that don't need to be fought.

Anytime anyone talks about cutting out nation's bloated militaristic spending, a republican will come along and call them a cheese eating surrender monkey.

The only people at the national level I've ever heard talk about realigning our priorities with regard to spending - towards societal needs, and reducing our military spending - are ultra lefties like Kucinich. Hell, like Zappa said, all obama did was cut a stupid F-22 program, and republicans were freaking out about it.

The reason, as chapdog says, that liberal democracies like ireland and the scandanvians have universal healthcare and free college and free universal day care is because of how they prioritize the way they spend their tax money. They don't have bloated militaries, and they don't love wars. Especially wars that don't need to be fought.
 
Cypress said:
\

Why aren't you demanding we cut military spending, and shrink our global military posture?

Oh, that's right. Because you republicans love massive military spending, and you love wars that don't need to be fought.

Anytime anyone talks about cutting out nation's bloated militaristic spending, a republican will come along and call them a cheese eating surrender monkey.

The only people at the national level I've ever heard talk about realigning our priorities with regard to spending - towards societal needs, and reducing our military spending - are ultra lefties like Kucinich. Hell, like Zappa said, all obama did was cut a stupid F-22 program, and republicans were freaking out about it.

The reason, as chapdog says, that liberal democracies like ireland and the scandanvians have universal healthcare and free college and free universal day care is because of how they prioritize the way they spend their tax money. They don't have bloated militaries, and they don't love wars. Especially wars that don't need to be fought.
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And we have a Bingo!!!
 
Cypress said:
I just checked CIA world factbook, and Ireland's public debt was something like 41.8% of their GDP, whereas our public debt is 60% of GDP.

So, not only are they spending the tax money on better, and more egalitarian priorities than us, they're managing their money better, relatively speaking.
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We just went over this in another thread. You are reading the listing for "public" debt, which is what the government owes in bonds to its own people. I'll see if I can find and link up the original story in the other thread since you seem entirely incapable of doing this honestly. Their per capita rate is well over $500,000 in external debt, about 1200% of their GDP.
 
Cypress said:
I just checked CIA world factbook, and Ireland's public debt was something like 41.8% of their GDP, whereas our public debt is 60% of GDP.

So, not only are they spending the tax money on better, and more egalitarian priorities than us, they're managing their money better, relatively speaking.
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Here ya go.

I knew I could find it.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30308959

Out of the world's 75 largest economies, the United States has the 20th largest as debt-to-GDP ratio, standing at 94.3%, with a gross external debt of $13.454 trillion and an annual GDP $14.26 trillion. In fact, out of the largest 75 economies, this number is just above the worldwide average of 90.8% Western-European and North American countries dominate the upper end of the spectrum, with Switzerland (422%) and the United Kingdom (408%) at the #2 and #3 spots, respectively, and Ireland representing the most drastic debt-to-GDP ratio. According to the most recent World Bank data, Ireland's number stands at a staggering 1,267%.
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I'll also note, if you list just the debt number rather than per capita, the US kicks everybody's butt, but when you list it on a per capita basis and as a percentage of GDP, the US isn't even close to the top of this ratio...

When a kid is born in Ireland he already owes over $500,000 in external debt just because he's a citizen of Ireland...
 
i also have no problem (as Ireland doesn't) in letting lazy able bodied people who always have a hand out but never want to work live a poverty level lower then we have here. One thing I hate more then anything is people who only take and never give. Id just assume let them die in the streets (baring inability to work).

One of our biggest problems is allowing this to happen in this country. People should have to work if they are able for welfare or hand outs.
 
meme said:
good gawd, do you have anything to say about the passage of this bill to enslave the American people? or is your life dedicated to following me around and whine in every thread I post in..:rolleyes:
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I would ask you to prove how this bill will enslave the American people as you claim, but everyone already knows you don't do answers. All you've got are your pitiful insults.
 
Once the people get accustomed to government involvement in health care they won't tolerate cuts so when budget time rolls around it's either raise taxes or cut other programs.

When it comes to discussions regarding affordability all the current expenses/programs are tallied up and then health care is considered. A change of attitude regarding priorities will happen once health care gets established. It will be among the first on the list but it will take time for the people to get used to it.

Whether it's the military or spending money on National Parks the people will demand that medical comes first, as it should.
 
apple0154 said:
Once the people get accustomed to government involvement in health care they won't tolerate cuts so when budget time rolls around it's either raise taxes or cut other programs.

When it comes to discussions regarding affordability all the current expenses/programs are tallied up and then health care is considered. A change of attitude regarding priorities will happen once health care gets established. It will be among the first on the list but it will take time for the people to get used to it.

Whether it's the military or spending money on National Parks the people will demand that medical comes first, as it should.
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That's exactly why its so important to kill it now. we've seen how social security has bankrupted folks, we won't let this happen without a damn revolt.
 
apple0154 said:
Social Security has bankrupted folks? What do you mean?
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Social security virtually ensures that folks on the lower end of the earning scale can never accumulate wealth to pass on to the next generation. Most poor people enter nursing homes with little or nothing left, as required by SS rules, then die more or less penniless.
 
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