house passes health care bill 220-215

TuTu Monroe said:
One Republican voted for it and they called it bi-partisan. LMAO

The bill as it stands now is a job killer. To mandate that everyone has to buy it with certain exceptions is IMO unconstitutional.
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Every driver has to buy auto insurance. Do you consider that unconstitutional?
 
meme said:
Good job American people who voted for this thug to become our President....and you say the Democrats were the party to free the slaves..

the Hugo Obama and the Democrat party just voted to make you all SLAVES..

Enjoy.
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Obama didn't vote on the bill. :p
 
DonQuixote said:
reps are vowing revenge in 2010

i wonder how many that voted for or against it actually read it - are not party politics wonderful

also, 1 house rep voted for it...

now for the senate...
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I find the high-fiving and back patting of the Democratic leadership, and some progressive media to be ridiculous. While this bill is better than nothing, it’s a POS from a progressive standpoint.

None of the liberal high fivers in most of the lefty media are mentioning that 69 jack ass democrats voted for the anti-choice Stupak amendment. Which effectively puts the government in charge of limiting or denying insurance payments for elective abortions. WTF? As far as I can tell, this is the most anti-choice piece of legislation the federal government has enacted since Roe. I don’t even think rightwing Ronnie, or Dubya were able to push through restrictions on reproductive choice to this extent. Are you freaking kidding me? A completely legal medical procedure, singled out and restrictions put in place to keep insurance companies from covering it? That some rightwing Christian Taliban crap right there. Can you fucking imagine if these legislators voted to restrict male fertility treatments or Viagra coverage? There would be hell to pay.

As for the public option, I haven’t been able to digest it all, but based on sources I trust, that crap got watered down to the point of being nearly meaningless. And only 219 Democrats could be coaxed into voting for a lame, watered down healthcare reform bill.

On a positive note, as I understand it, the bill will take away the ability of insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Which is cool. I know from experience that that shit fucks over millions of Americans, and it’s hard to believe that immorality of this extent was allowed to exist this long.
 
Yurt said:
it is an interesting question....auto ins. is mandated, yet, i believe the issue there is driving is not considered a right, it is a privilege....

if we do have to purchase the ins., i hope that the costs of ins. go way down instead of way up as i've seen some people claim will happen, especially since you cannot be denied or charged more for a preexisting condition or any other factors....

also, isn't the public option available only to a very small percentage? that is a travesty if so....
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Yurt, this bill is a disaster in the making.

Here are just a few of the sections in the bill:

• Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.

• Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.

The next paragraph is just an estimate.

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

• Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice—basic, enhanced and premium levels—but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.

• Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.

• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.

Eviscerating Medicare:
In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.
 
Tod and believe that woman should have all the babies God give us and we feel the burning need to force this life choice on other people. If we are the Taliban then we are the Taliban for Jesus!
 
sharinpalin said:
Tod and believe that woman should have all the babies God give us and we feel the burning need to force this life choice on other people. If we are the Taliban then we are the Taliban for Jesus!
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Frog, you really suck at this. I know you're too stupid to know 1. How obvious you are and 2. How stupid you look trying to be this troll...Tina Fey you'll never be...

You should come on as stoned drunk miserable house wife...I bet you'd be perfect!!! :cof1:
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Yurt, this bill is a disaster in the making.

Here are just a few of the sections in the bill:

• Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.

• Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.

The next paragraph is just an estimate.

On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.

• Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choice—basic, enhanced and premium levels—but the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.

• Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.

• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.

Eviscerating Medicare:
In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.
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and interestingly that is like auto insurance, in that, the state mandates minimum auto coverage....
 
Yurt said:
and interestingly that is like auto insurance, in that, the state mandates minimum auto coverage....
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When has the government paid for auto insurance or forced employers to pay for your auto insurance? Having a law that mandates auto insurance if you drive is not something I am a fan of...that's why we have uninsured drivers coverage....but even though we have mandatory coverage we are not making it part of a collective distribution of the wealth and turning over 1/6 of the GDP to the governments control!
 
Ice Dancer said:
When has the government paid for auto insurance or forced employers to pay for your auto insurance? Having a law that mandates auto insurance if you drive is not something I am a fan of...that's why we have uninsured drivers coverage....but even though we have mandatory coverage we are not making it part of a collective distribution of the wealth and turning over 1/6 of the GDP to the governments control!
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fair enough....

it is my opinion though that the lack of h/c harms this country more than the cost of providing h/c as had been ""claimed"" under the plans. i am fully aware that such claims made the government often are vastly understated, but if this plan is budget neutral, i don't really have a problem with it, especially since those without insurance also cost this country money, ER visits for starters....

i agree about the distribution of wealth, however, if the lack of h/c is actually harming us more than benefitting us, then the distribution of wealth of course is a moot point, as the benefits, wealth as well, outweigh the plan.

i will be honest and admit this much, i have changed my views on some social programs over the past year.....one example, i would give more but some asshole from maine is a stalker, is a friend who lost their job. they are on unemployment while seeking work....at first i was like, hey, get another fucking job, at mcdonalds or something....however, due to their "experience" they don't even get called back at places like that....and they only have an undergrad degree.....without unemployment they would be screwed.....

what are your thoughts on that?
 
There is little real difference between making an employee pay for insurance and making the employer do it.

The main reason for the employer mandate is so that employers don't start dropping employees - because if that happened it wouldn't be true to say that people can keep the insurance they have now.
 
Jngreznex said:
There is little real difference between making an employee pay for insurance and making the employer do it.

The main reason for the employer mandate is so that employers don't start dropping employees - because if that happened it wouldn't be true to say that people can keep the insurance they have now.
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So, are you saying the employer doesn't have the right to let employees go? Health Insurance is considered a benefit.
 
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