THE 2nd AMENDMENT - WHAT IT WAS INTENDED TO MEAN

Dachshund

Verified User
I discovered that the answer to question of how the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted is set out very clearly by Alexander Hamilton (the Founder) in Federalist #29 (1789).




The 2nd Amendment says....




"A well - regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."




To understand what Alexander Hamilton and other crucial Founders like George Washington were talking about in the 2nd Amendment, you will need to imagine that you are back in the America of 1789 - and try to get yourself inside a Founder's head !




Firstly the Revolutionary War is a very fresh memory, and the memory of this war would include a very distinct suspicion of standing armies as a tool of tyranny. In the 'Declaration of Independenc' (1776), there are over half a dozen examples that warned of the threat to liberty of a standing army.





So, the Founders, worried that a standing army could become a tool of some future tyrant, created a system of "checks and balances" to thwart a Federal army from ever threatening the liberties of American citizens.




Their solution was a "WELL - REGULATED MILITIA."




In 1789, the term "MILITIA" did NOT refer to a self-appointed force of citizens in camo running around in the woods with rifles. "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden - if I can diverge for a second - however, thinks that this is, indeed, the case in America today; namely, that there are White Supremacists in control of "ULTRA-MAGA" militia networks organised throughout "fly-over country," whose members are busy running about 24/7 training with AR-15 rifles so they can mount an insurrection to re-install Donald Trump as POTUS !! To continue. What Hamilton and the other key Founders - like Thomas Madison and George Washington, for example, meant by the term "a well-regulated militia" is that militias would be raised by each state government in the republic Hamilton explains in Federalist #29 (1789), that their loyalty and devotion to the new American republic was assured by the fact they would be defending their families, their neighbours and their homes. (And) because they might someday have to operate as a combined force, the militias were to be "WELL-REGULATED" - that meant trained to standards set by the federal government.





I'll give you an example of a modern-day militia of the kind that Hamilton was referring to taken from Australia. In Australia we have a standing army, that is a professional, regular army comprised of full-time. There is also a civilian militia called the Australian Army Reserves. The Army Reserves are everyday citizens who are not full-time, professional soldiers, they could be:electricians, teachers, businessmen, truck-drivers, doctors,, gardeners, architects - just about any occupation you could name. Provided they meet the age and health criteria set, they can sign on to be a Reservist. A Reservist might sign-on for one or two (sometimes more) days a week of duty. A lot of guy devote Saturday and/or Sunday to being in the Australian Army Reserve. When they join the Army reserve, they are given military training by member of the regular Australian standing/professional army. They are taught how to use the different firearms the Australian Army uses, how to set mines, use rocket-propelled grenades, fire SAM missiles, as well as military communication and surveillance techniques and so on and on and on. These Reservist are pretty much what the Founder had in mind when they were referring to a millitia. For instance I could join my local Australian Army Reserve, if I did I would be joining my local "well-regulated militia" in the state of Australia in which I live (which is Queensland).




The idea of the Army Reserves is for the Federal Government to train civilians up to the stands set by the Australian standing (professional) Army, so that if ever the shit hits the fan and Australia is suddenly invaded by an army of bellicose hairy-assed Islamists (running amok through Sydney waving their swords and shouting: " Allah u Akbar{/B] - kill the Whitey" !!) , or some other species of blood-thirsty Darkies, the Reserves (militiamen) are ready to swing into action and support the regular Australian Army in the fight.





OK, so, getting back to America and the 2nd Amendment. I've explained what a militia is. In the case of the Second Amendment each state was to have its own militia or citizens army who were trained according to uniform military stands set by the Federal government. The Federal government was envisaged as having a relatively small standing army, because, as I mentioned, the Founders didn't trust governments with large standing armies (for a number of reasons) Again, put yourself in the mind of an American Founder in 1789...You are directly invested in a great experiment in liberal democracy and republican government. As a 'republic" everything the state did was a public thing - including defence, and liberal democracies rely on FREE INSTITUTIONS to protect rights. So you will have to see that the potential power of the federal government - including a standing army - is offset by the power of a militia under the authority of the states that made up the union.





It wasn't that ONE MAN with a gun would stop tyranny, it was that the free association of citizens organized in state government militias would act as a bulwark against the power of central government. In this context, the 2nd Amendment WAS NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO POSSESS ARD BEAR ARMS, IT WAS ABOUT PREVENTING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM INTERFERING IN THE ABILITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL STATES TO ESTABLISH "WELL-ORGANISED MILITIA" and in so doing protect liberty. It seems the Founders believed the states' militia could meet the needs of national defence, while also balancing the potential tyrannical power of a LARGE standing army.





So there you go. The 2nd Amendment does give you the right to possess and bear armsBUT NOT FOR INDIVIDUAL SELF DEFENCE, NOR FOR TARGET-SHOOTING, NOR FOR HUNTING, NOR BECAUSE YOU THINK OWNING AN AR-15 COOL AND WILL IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS, NOR FOR VIGILANTISM and so on. The Founder were focussed on a much bigger picture, and arguably they should have put a bit more effort into making their intentions in the 2nd Amendment much clearer. Nonetheless if you cross-reference the thoughts of the various Founders who addressed this issue it's crystal clear that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with anything but the establishment of "well-regulated" state militia - citizen armies for which citizens would need ready access to a firearm. THAT'S WHY the 2nd Amendment gave individual citizens "the right to keep and bear arms."





It amazes me hoe clever the Founders were. But like any human beings they could not see into the future. I think they kind of took it for granted that America would always remain a White (European) Protestant nation, and if it had everything would have been sweet. They never imaginged an ass-hole like Lyndon Baines Johnson would fill America with coloured Third World peasant, or that communists would seize power in 2021 and open the nations's borders to literally any undesirables/criminals/perverts/terrorists who wanted to walk into America NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They would never have imagined something like a "President" "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden in their wildest nightmares. Maybe if they could see America's Blue State cities today, the Founders would say: "Yes, every individual American citizen has the right to own and bear arms because there are so many dangerous screwballs and crazy f**k - wits at large (meth-heads, psychopaths, violent psychotics, low IQ/low impulse-control Blacks, etc; you absolutely need a firearm for defending yourself.."



???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????





Dachshund - the Wonder Hound




DLM ....Dachshund Lives Matter !!
 
Last edited:
biased opinion is wrong.

The 2nd Amendment was ratified to deny the federal government ANY power or authority over the arms of the private citizens. end of story.
 
biased opinion is wrong.

The 2nd Amendment was ratified to deny the federal government ANY power or authority over the arms of the private citizens. end of story.


If you read what I wrote it is exactly the opposite to what you claim I was saying. George Washington absolutely DIDN'T want America to have a big central (federal) government and, in particular a big standing army.


The Second Amendment - whether you like it or not - is absolutely NOT addressing - NOR concerned in any way with - the right of American INDIVIDUALS to "keep and bear" firearms for the purpose of THEIR OWN self - defense or the defence of their own, private property.



Dachshund - the Wonder Hound


DLM....Dachshund Lives Matter !!.
 
Last edited:
The Second Amendment - whether you like it or not - is absolutely NOT addressing - NOR concerned in any way with - the right of American INDIVIDUALS to "keep and bear" firearms for the purpose of THEIR OWN self - defense or the defence of their own, private property.

in this, we agree. The 2nd Amendment ONLY addresses that the federal government has no constitutional power or authority over the private arms of private citizens.
 
I discovered that the answer to question of how the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted is set out very clearly by Alexander Hamilton (the Founder) in Federalist #29 (1789).




The 2nd Amendment says....




"A well - regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."




To understand what Alexander Hamilton and other crucial Founders like George Washington were talking about in the 2nd Amendment, you will need to imagine that you are back in the America of 1789 - and try to get yourself inside a Founder's head !




Firstly the Revolutionary War is a very fresh memory, and the memory of this war would include a very distinct suspicion of standing armies as a tool of tyranny. In the 'Declaration of Independenc' (1776), there are over half a dozen examples that warned of the threat to liberty of a standing army.





So, the Founders, worried that a standing army could become a tool of some future tyrant, created a system of "checks and balances" to thwart a Federal army from ever threatening the liberties of American citizens.




Their solution was a "WELL - REGULATED MILITIA."




In 1789, the term "MILITIA" did NOT refer to a self-appointed force of citizens in camo running around in the woods with rifles. "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden - if I can diverge for a second - however, thinks that this is, indeed, the case in America today; namely, that there are White Supremacists in control of "ULTRA-MAGA" militia networks organised throughout "fly-over country," whose members are busy running about 24/7 training with AR-15 rifles so they can mount an insurrection to re-install Donald Trump as POTUS !! To continue. What Hamilton and the other key Founders - like Thomas Madison and George Washington, for example, meant by the term "a well-regulated militia" is that militias would be raised by each state government in the republic Hamilton explains in Federalist #29 (1789), that their loyalty and devotion to the new American republic was assured by the fact they would be defending their families, their neighbours and their homes. (And) because they might someday have to operate as a combined force, the militias were to be "WELL-REGULATED" - that meant trained to standards set by the federal government.





I'll give you an example of a modern-day militia of the kind that Hamilton was referring to taken from Australia. In Australia we have a standing army, that is a professional, regular army comprised of full-time. There is also a civilian militia called the Australian Army Reserves. The Army Reserves are everyday citizens who are not full-time, professional soldiers, they could be:electricians, teachers, businessmen, truck-drivers, doctors,, gardeners, architects - just about any occupation you could name. Provided they meet the age and health criteria set, they can sign on to be a Reservist. A Reservist might sign-on for one or two (sometimes more) days a week of duty. A lot of guy devote Saturday and/or Sunday to being in the Australian Army Reserve. When they join the Army reserve, they are given military training by member of the regular Australian standing/professional army. They are taught how to use the different firearms the Australian Army uses, how to set mines, use rocket-propelled grenades, fire SAM missiles, as well as military communication and surveillance techniques and so on and on and on. These Reservist are pretty much what the Founder had in mind when they were referring to a millitia. For instance I could join my local Australian Army Reserve, if I did I would be joining my local "well-regulated militia" in the state of Australia in which I live (which is Queensland).




The idea of the Army Reserves is for the Federal Government to train civilians up to the stands set by the Australian standing (professional) Army, so that if ever the shit hits the fan and Australia is suddenly invaded by an army of bellicose hairy-assed Islamists (running amok through Sydney waving their swords and shouting: " Allah u Akbar{/B] - kill the Whitey" !!) , or some other species of blood-thirsty Darkies, the Reserves (militiamen) are ready to swing into action and support the regular Australian Army in the fight.





OK, so, getting back to America and the 2nd Amendment. I've explained what a militia is. In the case of the Second Amendment each state was to have its own militia or citizens army who were trained according to uniform military stands set by the Federal government. The Federal government was envisaged as having a relatively small standing army, because, as I mentioned, the Founders didn't trust governments with large standing armies (for a number of reasons) Again, put yourself in the mind of an American Founder in 1789...You are directly invested in a great experiment in liberal democracy and republican government. As a 'republic" everything the state did was a public thing - including defence, and liberal democracies rely on FREE INSTITUTIONS to protect rights. So you will have to see that the potential power of the federal government - including a standing army - is offset by the power of a militia under the authority of the states that made up the union.





It wasn't that ONE MAN with a gun would stop tyranny, it was that the free association of citizens organized in state government militias would act as a bulwark against the power of central government. In this context, the 2nd Amendment WAS NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO POSSESS ARD BEAR ARMS, IT WAS ABOUT PREVENTING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM INTERFERING IN THE ABILITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL STATES TO ESTABLISH "WELL-ORGANISED MILITIA" and in so doing protect liberty. It seems the Founders believed the states' militia could meet the needs of national defence, while also balancing the potential tyrannical power of a LARGE standing army.





So there you go. The 2nd Amendment does give you the right to possess and bear armsBUT NOT FOR INDIVIDUAL SELF DEFENCE, NOR FOR TARGET-SHOOTING, NOR FOR HUNTING, NOR BECAUSE YOU THINK OWNING AN AR-15 COOL AND WILL IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS, NOR FOR VIGILANTISM and so on. The Founder were focussed on a much bigger picture, and arguably they should have put a bit more effort into making their intentions in the 2nd Amendment much clearer. Nonetheless if you cross-reference the thoughts of the various Founders who addressed this issue it's crystal clear that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with anything but the establishment of "well-regulated" state militia - citizen armies for which citizens would need ready access to a firearm. THAT'S WHY the 2nd Amendment gave individual citizens "the right to keep and bear arms."





It amazes me hoe clever the Founders were. But like any human beings they could not see into the future. I think they kind of took it for granted that America would always remain a White (European) Protestant nation, and if it had everything would have been sweet. They never imaginged an ass-hole like Lyndon Baines Johnson would fill America with coloured Third World peasant, or that communists would seize power in 2021 and open the nations's borders to literally any undesirables/criminals/perverts/terrorists who wanted to walk into America NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They would never have imagined something like a "President" "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden in their wildest nightmares. Maybe if they could see America's Blue State cities today, the Founders would say: "Yes, every individual American citizen has the right to own and bear arms because there are so many dangerous screwballs and crazy f**k - wits at large (meth-heads, psychopaths, violent psychotics, low IQ/low impulse-control Blacks, etc; you absolutely need a firearm for defending yourself.."



???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????





Dachshund - the Wonder Hound




DLM ....Dachshund Lives Matter !!


You didn’t discover anything, the NRA publishes a whole collection of Founding Fathers quotes with zero contest to reframed to justify guns, this is nothing new

As I said before, the Founding Fathers were prolific authors, often even contradicting themselves, search long enough and you can find a quote to rationalize just about anything you want

Amazing how for over two hundred plus years no SCOTUS could ever define the purpose nor prefatory clause of the Second Amendment, not even Thomas’s sophomoric attempt. Yet all the time we see these gun lovers tell us “what it was intended to mean,” and the biggest irony is that the “right,” just like all Constitutional rights, is not absolute, it can be regulated
 
I discovered that the answer to question of how the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted is set out very clearly by Alexander Hamilton (the Founder) in Federalist #29 (1789).




The 2nd Amendment says....




"A well - regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."




To understand what Alexander Hamilton and other crucial Founders like George Washington were talking about in the 2nd Amendment, you will need to imagine that you are back in the America of 1789 - and try to get yourself inside a Founder's head !




Firstly the Revolutionary War is a very fresh memory, and the memory of this war would include a very distinct suspicion of standing armies as a tool of tyranny. In the 'Declaration of Independenc' (1776), there are over half a dozen examples that warned of the threat to liberty of a standing army.





So, the Founders, worried that a standing army could become a tool of some future tyrant, created a system of "checks and balances" to thwart a Federal army from ever threatening the liberties of American citizens.




Their solution was a "WELL - REGULATED MILITIA."




In 1789, the term "MILITIA" did NOT refer to a self-appointed force of citizens in camo running around in the woods with rifles. "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden - if I can diverge for a second - however, thinks that this is, indeed, the case in America today; namely, that there are White Supremacists in control of "ULTRA-MAGA" militia networks organised throughout "fly-over country," whose members are busy running about 24/7 training with AR-15 rifles so they can mount an insurrection to re-install Donald Trump as POTUS !! To continue. What Hamilton and the other key Founders - like Thomas Madison and George Washington, for example, meant by the term "a well-regulated militia" is that militias would be raised by each state government in the republic Hamilton explains in Federalist #29 (1789), that their loyalty and devotion to the new American republic was assured by the fact they would be defending their families, their neighbours and their homes. (And) because they might someday have to operate as a combined force, the militias were to be "WELL-REGULATED" - that meant trained to standards set by the federal government.





I'll give you an example of a modern-day militia of the kind that Hamilton was referring to taken from Australia. In Australia we have a standing army, that is a professional, regular army comprised of full-time. There is also a civilian militia called the Australian Army Reserves. The Army Reserves are everyday citizens who are not full-time, professional soldiers, they could be:electricians, teachers, businessmen, truck-drivers, doctors,, gardeners, architects - just about any occupation you could name. Provided they meet the age and health criteria set, they can sign on to be a Reservist. A Reservist might sign-on for one or two (sometimes more) days a week of duty. A lot of guy devote Saturday and/or Sunday to being in the Australian Army Reserve. When they join the Army reserve, they are given military training by member of the regular Australian standing/professional army. They are taught how to use the different firearms the Australian Army uses, how to set mines, use rocket-propelled grenades, fire SAM missiles, as well as military communication and surveillance techniques and so on and on and on. These Reservist are pretty much what the Founder had in mind when they were referring to a millitia. For instance I could join my local Australian Army Reserve, if I did I would be joining my local "well-regulated militia" in the state of Australia in which I live (which is Queensland).




The idea of the Army Reserves is for the Federal Government to train civilians up to the stands set by the Australian standing (professional) Army, so that if ever the shit hits the fan and Australia is suddenly invaded by an army of bellicose hairy-assed Islamists (running amok through Sydney waving their swords and shouting: " Allah u Akbar{/B] - kill the Whitey" !!) , or some other species of blood-thirsty Darkies, the Reserves (militiamen) are ready to swing into action and support the regular Australian Army in the fight.





OK, so, getting back to America and the 2nd Amendment. I've explained what a militia is. In the case of the Second Amendment each state was to have its own militia or citizens army who were trained according to uniform military stands set by the Federal government. The Federal government was envisaged as having a relatively small standing army, because, as I mentioned, the Founders didn't trust governments with large standing armies (for a number of reasons) Again, put yourself in the mind of an American Founder in 1789...You are directly invested in a great experiment in liberal democracy and republican government. As a 'republic" everything the state did was a public thing - including defence, and liberal democracies rely on FREE INSTITUTIONS to protect rights. So you will have to see that the potential power of the federal government - including a standing army - is offset by the power of a militia under the authority of the states that made up the union.





It wasn't that ONE MAN with a gun would stop tyranny, it was that the free association of citizens organized in state government militias would act as a bulwark against the power of central government. In this context, the 2nd Amendment WAS NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO POSSESS ARD BEAR ARMS, IT WAS ABOUT PREVENTING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM INTERFERING IN THE ABILITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL STATES TO ESTABLISH "WELL-ORGANISED MILITIA" and in so doing protect liberty. It seems the Founders believed the states' militia could meet the needs of national defence, while also balancing the potential tyrannical power of a LARGE standing army.





So there you go. The 2nd Amendment does give you the right to possess and bear armsBUT NOT FOR INDIVIDUAL SELF DEFENCE, NOR FOR TARGET-SHOOTING, NOR FOR HUNTING, NOR BECAUSE YOU THINK OWNING AN AR-15 COOL AND WILL IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS, NOR FOR VIGILANTISM and so on. The Founder were focussed on a much bigger picture, and arguably they should have put a bit more effort into making their intentions in the 2nd Amendment much clearer. Nonetheless if you cross-reference the thoughts of the various Founders who addressed this issue it's crystal clear that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with anything but the establishment of "well-regulated" state militia - citizen armies for which citizens would need ready access to a firearm. THAT'S WHY the 2nd Amendment gave individual citizens "the right to keep and bear arms."





It amazes me hoe clever the Founders were. But like any human beings they could not see into the future. I think they kind of took it for granted that America would always remain a White (European) Protestant nation, and if it had everything would have been sweet. They never imaginged an ass-hole like Lyndon Baines Johnson would fill America with coloured Third World peasant, or that communists would seize power in 2021 and open the nations's borders to literally any undesirables/criminals/perverts/terrorists who wanted to walk into America NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They would never have imagined something like a "President" "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden in their wildest nightmares. Maybe if they could see America's Blue State cities today, the Founders would say: "Yes, every individual American citizen has the right to own and bear arms because there are so many dangerous screwballs and crazy f**k - wits at large (meth-heads, psychopaths, violent psychotics, low IQ/low impulse-control Blacks, etc; you absolutely need a firearm for defending yourself.."



???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????





Dachshund - the Wonder Hound




DLM ....Dachshund Lives Matter !!


I get your point but I think you're making a distinction where one doesn't exist.
 
If you read what I wrote it is exactly the opposite to what you claim I was saying. George Washington absolutely DIDN'T want America to have a big central (federal) government and, in particular a big standing army.


The Second Amendment - whether you like it or not - is absolutely NOT addressing - NOR concerned in any way with - the right of American INDIVIDUALS to "keep and bear" firearms for the purpose of THEIR OWN self - defense or the defence of their own, private property.



Dachshund - the Wonder Hound


DLM....Dachshund Lives Matter !!.

So there you go, cut military spending dramatically and the Debt problem if fixed. Also the taxation problem will be largely corrected.
 
Don’t know where this “George Washington didn’t want a strong Central Gov’t” comes from, he was the leader of the Federalist Party, and allowed Hamilton to create a National Bank
 
So there you go, cut military spending dramatically and the Debt problem if fixed. Also the taxation problem will be largely corrected.

Cut entitlement programs and we'll all have cash coming out of our asses. Get rid of fed depts created to deal with things the govt has no authority to deal with and we'll be drowning in cash. Idiot
 
I discovered that the answer to question of how the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted is set out very clearly by Alexander Hamilton (the Founder) in Federalist #29 (1789).




The 2nd Amendment says....




"A well - regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."




To understand what Alexander Hamilton and other crucial Founders like George Washington were talking about in the 2nd Amendment, you will need to imagine that you are back in the America of 1789 - and try to get yourself inside a Founder's head !




Firstly the Revolutionary War is a very fresh memory, and the memory of this war would include a very distinct suspicion of standing armies as a tool of tyranny. In the 'Declaration of Independenc' (1776), there are over half a dozen examples that warned of the threat to liberty of a standing army.





So, the Founders, worried that a standing army could become a tool of some future tyrant, created a system of "checks and balances" to thwart a Federal army from ever threatening the liberties of American citizens.




Their solution was a "WELL - REGULATED MILITIA."




In 1789, the term "MILITIA" did NOT refer to a self-appointed force of citizens in camo running around in the woods with rifles. "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden - if I can diverge for a second - however, thinks that this is, indeed, the case in America today; namely, that there are White Supremacists in control of "ULTRA-MAGA" militia networks organised throughout "fly-over country," whose members are busy running about 24/7 training with AR-15 rifles so they can mount an insurrection to re-install Donald Trump as POTUS !! To continue. What Hamilton and the other key Founders - like Thomas Madison and George Washington, for example, meant by the term "a well-regulated militia" is that militias would be raised by each state government in the republic Hamilton explains in Federalist #29 (1789), that their loyalty and devotion to the new American republic was assured by the fact they would be defending their families, their neighbours and their homes. (And) because they might someday have to operate as a combined force, the militias were to be "WELL-REGULATED" - that meant trained to standards set by the federal government.





I'll give you an example of a modern-day militia of the kind that Hamilton was referring to taken from Australia. In Australia we have a standing army, that is a professional, regular army comprised of full-time. There is also a civilian militia called the Australian Army Reserves. The Army Reserves are everyday citizens who are not full-time, professional soldiers, they could be:electricians, teachers, businessmen, truck-drivers, doctors,, gardeners, architects - just about any occupation you could name. Provided they meet the age and health criteria set, they can sign on to be a Reservist. A Reservist might sign-on for one or two (sometimes more) days a week of duty. A lot of guy devote Saturday and/or Sunday to being in the Australian Army Reserve. When they join the Army reserve, they are given military training by member of the regular Australian standing/professional army. They are taught how to use the different firearms the Australian Army uses, how to set mines, use rocket-propelled grenades, fire SAM missiles, as well as military communication and surveillance techniques and so on and on and on. These Reservist are pretty much what the Founder had in mind when they were referring to a millitia. For instance I could join my local Australian Army Reserve, if I did I would be joining my local "well-regulated militia" in the state of Australia in which I live (which is Queensland).




The idea of the Army Reserves is for the Federal Government to train civilians up to the stands set by the Australian standing (professional) Army, so that if ever the shit hits the fan and Australia is suddenly invaded by an army of bellicose hairy-assed Islamists (running amok through Sydney waving their swords and shouting: " Allah u Akbar{/B] - kill the Whitey" !!) , or some other species of blood-thirsty Darkies, the Reserves (militiamen) are ready to swing into action and support the regular Australian Army in the fight.





OK, so, getting back to America and the 2nd Amendment. I've explained what a militia is. In the case of the Second Amendment each state was to have its own militia or citizens army who were trained according to uniform military stands set by the Federal government. The Federal government was envisaged as having a relatively small standing army, because, as I mentioned, the Founders didn't trust governments with large standing armies (for a number of reasons) Again, put yourself in the mind of an American Founder in 1789...You are directly invested in a great experiment in liberal democracy and republican government. As a 'republic" everything the state did was a public thing - including defence, and liberal democracies rely on FREE INSTITUTIONS to protect rights. So you will have to see that the potential power of the federal government - including a standing army - is offset by the power of a militia under the authority of the states that made up the union.





It wasn't that ONE MAN with a gun would stop tyranny, it was that the free association of citizens organized in state government militias would act as a bulwark against the power of central government. In this context, the 2nd Amendment WAS NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO POSSESS ARD BEAR ARMS, IT WAS ABOUT PREVENTING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM INTERFERING IN THE ABILITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL STATES TO ESTABLISH "WELL-ORGANISED MILITIA" and in so doing protect liberty. It seems the Founders believed the states' militia could meet the needs of national defence, while also balancing the potential tyrannical power of a LARGE standing army.





So there you go. The 2nd Amendment does give you the right to possess and bear armsBUT NOT FOR INDIVIDUAL SELF DEFENCE, NOR FOR TARGET-SHOOTING, NOR FOR HUNTING, NOR BECAUSE YOU THINK OWNING AN AR-15 COOL AND WILL IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS, NOR FOR VIGILANTISM and so on. The Founder were focussed on a much bigger picture, and arguably they should have put a bit more effort into making their intentions in the 2nd Amendment much clearer. Nonetheless if you cross-reference the thoughts of the various Founders who addressed this issue it's crystal clear that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with anything but the establishment of "well-regulated" state militia - citizen armies for which citizens would need ready access to a firearm. THAT'S WHY the 2nd Amendment gave individual citizens "the right to keep and bear arms."





It amazes me hoe clever the Founders were. But like any human beings they could not see into the future. I think they kind of took it for granted that America would always remain a White (European) Protestant nation, and if it had everything would have been sweet. They never imaginged an ass-hole like Lyndon Baines Johnson would fill America with coloured Third World peasant, or that communists would seize power in 2021 and open the nations's borders to literally any undesirables/criminals/perverts/terrorists who wanted to walk into America NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They would never have imagined something like a "President" "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden in their wildest nightmares. Maybe if they could see America's Blue State cities today, the Founders would say: "Yes, every individual American citizen has the right to own and bear arms because there are so many dangerous screwballs and crazy f**k - wits at large (meth-heads, psychopaths, violent psychotics, low IQ/low impulse-control Blacks, etc; you absolutely need a firearm for defending yourself.."



???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????





Dachshund - the Wonder Hound




DLM ....Dachshund Lives Matter !!


Where is the link you copied this from?
 
Military spending is multitudes more enormous than the tiny amount of spending related to so called "entitlements".
 
The need for guns due to no standing army died when we started the world's biggest army. The base of the argument expired. We do not need an armed country because they will shoot each other and other people. I suppose if you want a musket, that could have historical significance. it in no way justifies military weapons in the population.
 
You didn’t discover anything, the NRA publishes a whole collection of Founding Fathers quotes with zero contest to reframed to justify guns, this is nothing new
they are very clear. your 'no context' remark is simply trying to lie about them.

Amazing how for over two hundred plus years no SCOTUS could ever define the purpose nor prefatory clause of the Second Amendment
It's not the job of SCOTUS to define the 2nd Amendment. That was done in the years prior to, during, and after ratification by the people who ratified it.

and the biggest irony is that the “right,” just like all Constitutional rights, is not absolute, it can be regulated
'shall not be infringed' was very clear, but even for the willfully ignorant, several commentaries exist in history that clearly state the Congress has no authority over the arms of we the people
 
The need for guns due to no standing army died when we started the world's biggest army. The base of the argument expired. We do not need an armed country because they will shoot each other and other people. I suppose if you want a musket, that could have historical significance. it in no way justifies military weapons in the population.

The base of the argument was NEVER because we needed a standing army. The founders distrusted standing armies as the bane of liberty. The intent of the founders was to ensure that the people could never be ruled over by a government that was mightier than the people.
 
I discovered that the answer to question of how the 2nd Amendment should be interpreted is set out very clearly by Alexander Hamilton (the Founder) in Federalist #29 (1789).




The 2nd Amendment says....




"A well - regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."




To understand what Alexander Hamilton and other crucial Founders like George Washington were talking about in the 2nd Amendment, you will need to imagine that you are back in the America of 1789 - and try to get yourself inside a Founder's head !




Firstly the Revolutionary War is a very fresh memory, and the memory of this war would include a very distinct suspicion of standing armies as a tool of tyranny. In the 'Declaration of Independenc' (1776), there are over half a dozen examples that warned of the threat to liberty of a standing army.





So, the Founders, worried that a standing army could become a tool of some future tyrant, created a system of "checks and balances" to thwart a Federal army from ever threatening the liberties of American citizens.




Their solution was a "WELL - REGULATED MILITIA."




In 1789, the term "MILITIA" did NOT refer to a self-appointed force of citizens in camo running around in the woods with rifles. "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden - if I can diverge for a second - however, thinks that this is, indeed, the case in America today; namely, that there are White Supremacists in control of "ULTRA-MAGA" militia networks organised throughout "fly-over country," whose members are busy running about 24/7 training with AR-15 rifles so they can mount an insurrection to re-install Donald Trump as POTUS !! To continue. What Hamilton and the other key Founders - like Thomas Madison and George Washington, for example, meant by the term "a well-regulated militia" is that militias would be raised by each state government in the republic Hamilton explains in Federalist #29 (1789), that their loyalty and devotion to the new American republic was assured by the fact they would be defending their families, their neighbours and their homes. (And) because they might someday have to operate as a combined force, the militias were to be "WELL-REGULATED" - that meant trained to standards set by the federal government.





I'll give you an example of a modern-day militia of the kind that Hamilton was referring to taken from Australia. In Australia we have a standing army, that is a professional, regular army comprised of full-time. There is also a civilian militia called the Australian Army Reserves. The Army Reserves are everyday citizens who are not full-time, professional soldiers, they could be:electricians, teachers, businessmen, truck-drivers, doctors,, gardeners, architects - just about any occupation you could name. Provided they meet the age and health criteria set, they can sign on to be a Reservist. A Reservist might sign-on for one or two (sometimes more) days a week of duty. A lot of guy devote Saturday and/or Sunday to being in the Australian Army Reserve. When they join the Army reserve, they are given military training by member of the regular Australian standing/professional army. They are taught how to use the different firearms the Australian Army uses, how to set mines, use rocket-propelled grenades, fire SAM missiles, as well as military communication and surveillance techniques and so on and on and on. These Reservist are pretty much what the Founder had in mind when they were referring to a millitia. For instance I could join my local Australian Army Reserve, if I did I would be joining my local "well-regulated militia" in the state of Australia in which I live (which is Queensland).




The idea of the Army Reserves is for the Federal Government to train civilians up to the stands set by the Australian standing (professional) Army, so that if ever the shit hits the fan and Australia is suddenly invaded by an army of bellicose hairy-assed Islamists (running amok through Sydney waving their swords and shouting: " Allah u Akbar{/B] - kill the Whitey" !!) , or some other species of blood-thirsty Darkies, the Reserves (militiamen) are ready to swing into action and support the regular Australian Army in the fight.





OK, so, getting back to America and the 2nd Amendment. I've explained what a militia is. In the case of the Second Amendment each state was to have its own militia or citizens army who were trained according to uniform military stands set by the Federal government. The Federal government was envisaged as having a relatively small standing army, because, as I mentioned, the Founders didn't trust governments with large standing armies (for a number of reasons) Again, put yourself in the mind of an American Founder in 1789...You are directly invested in a great experiment in liberal democracy and republican government. As a 'republic" everything the state did was a public thing - including defence, and liberal democracies rely on FREE INSTITUTIONS to protect rights. So you will have to see that the potential power of the federal government - including a standing army - is offset by the power of a militia under the authority of the states that made up the union.





It wasn't that ONE MAN with a gun would stop tyranny, it was that the free association of citizens organized in state government militias would act as a bulwark against the power of central government. In this context, the 2nd Amendment WAS NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO POSSESS ARD BEAR ARMS, IT WAS ABOUT PREVENTING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM INTERFERING IN THE ABILITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL STATES TO ESTABLISH "WELL-ORGANISED MILITIA" and in so doing protect liberty. It seems the Founders believed the states' militia could meet the needs of national defence, while also balancing the potential tyrannical power of a LARGE standing army.





So there you go. The 2nd Amendment does give you the right to possess and bear armsBUT NOT FOR INDIVIDUAL SELF DEFENCE, NOR FOR TARGET-SHOOTING, NOR FOR HUNTING, NOR BECAUSE YOU THINK OWNING AN AR-15 COOL AND WILL IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS, NOR FOR VIGILANTISM and so on. The Founder were focussed on a much bigger picture, and arguably they should have put a bit more effort into making their intentions in the 2nd Amendment much clearer. Nonetheless if you cross-reference the thoughts of the various Founders who addressed this issue it's crystal clear that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with anything but the establishment of "well-regulated" state militia - citizen armies for which citizens would need ready access to a firearm. THAT'S WHY the 2nd Amendment gave individual citizens "the right to keep and bear arms."





It amazes me hoe clever the Founders were. But like any human beings they could not see into the future. I think they kind of took it for granted that America would always remain a White (European) Protestant nation, and if it had everything would have been sweet. They never imaginged an ass-hole like Lyndon Baines Johnson would fill America with coloured Third World peasant, or that communists would seize power in 2021 and open the nations's borders to literally any undesirables/criminals/perverts/terrorists who wanted to walk into America NO QUESTIONS ASKED. They would never have imagined something like a "President" "Blow-Hole" Joe Biden in their wildest nightmares. Maybe if they could see America's Blue State cities today, the Founders would say: "Yes, every individual American citizen has the right to own and bear arms because there are so many dangerous screwballs and crazy f**k - wits at large (meth-heads, psychopaths, violent psychotics, low IQ/low impulse-control Blacks, etc; you absolutely need a firearm for defending yourself.."



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Dachshund - the Wonder Hound




DLM ....Dachshund Lives Matter !!


It is not required to be in a militia to be a people. The right of the PEOPLE to bear arms shall not be infringed, just as the right of a free State to form militias shall not be infringed.
It is not required to be in a militia to own and carry a gun or any other weapon.
 
The idea behind the Second Amendment is this... each of the American states is to form its own militia ("civilian army"). But it is not just some harum-scarum, hairy-assed militia that the Founders wanted the states to establish. Rather, as it says in the 2nd Amendment, they wanted to ensure that the states established tight, well-organised WELL-REGULATED and fighting-fit militia.


Now, to REGULATE a function is to make sure that that function conforms strictly to certain, set STANDARDS.


The Founders wanted a SMALL (FEDERAL), PROFESSIONAL, CENTRAL, STANDING ARMY to provide each of the state militia with UNIFORM, HIGH standards of military training. That was George Washington's plan. While each of the state militia received top-class professional military traing, the Federal standing army remained relatively small. Because the Founder were extremely suspicious about an American federal government putting together a large, professional n, standing army. They didn't trust that in the future a rogue American federal government would not use a large standing army it hd built up as a tool to tyrannise the people Having state militia that were well-traing in combat/battle skills/tactic/strategies was a check against the possibility of future government endeavouring to establish a large standing army for the purpose of oppressing the people. If this did happen the state militias would band together as unified fighty force to defend the liberty of the people. Remember the state militias were CITIZEN armies not professional.("paid-by-the federal government") regular, standing armies.


The way I interpret it, the Founders were thinking, if, at some point in the there was a rogue Federal government - like, say, the Biden administration, which has totally "lost the plot" and is, indeed, tyrannising the people, Biden's Federal standing army could be opposed by a unified force of the state militia, if he threatened/endeavoured to use it as a tool to suppress the liberty (and/or other natural rights) of of the people. That is ,DON'T TREAD ON US, BIDEN, IF YOU DO, WE'RE ARMED AND READY. That was Hamilton, Washington,Madison and Co.s thinking in the late 18th-century - that's why the 2nd Amendment was ratified. It was all about American citizens have firearm FOR USE IN STATE MILITIAS, NOT for any other purpose, like self-defence. If the Founders had wanted American citizens to have the right to "own and bear firearms for self-defence or any other reason than use in "well-regulated militia I think they would have said so (?) In any case, they DID NOT.


Dachshund - the Wonder Hound


DLM...Dachshund Lives Matter
 
biased opinion is wrong.

The 2nd Amendment was ratified to deny the federal government ANY power or authority over the arms of the private citizens. end of story.

Not quite true, since the federal government was never granted any authority over them in the first place!

The 2nd amendment further clarifies this limitation on the federal government, but also acts and agreement between the States. No State shall infringe on the right of self defense, the formation of a militia by any State to defend themselves, or the right of the people to own and carry a weapon, including any type of gun. The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to apply to the States as well as the federal government.
 
Military spending is multitudes more enormous than the tiny amount of spending related to so called "entitlements".

The current spending on the military is about $775 billion.
The current spending on Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security is $2.7 TRILLION...over THREE TIMES what is spend on the military.

Source: OMB

Oh...and interest on the national debt is currently about $535 billion...almost as much as the entire military budget.

Source: US Treasury.
 
You didn’t discover anything, the NRA publishes a whole collection of Founding Fathers quotes with zero contest to reframed to justify guns, this is nothing new

As I said before, the Founding Fathers were prolific authors, often even contradicting themselves, search long enough and you can find a quote to rationalize just about anything you want

Amazing how for over two hundred plus years no SCOTUS could ever define the purpose nor prefatory clause of the Second Amendment, not even Thomas’s sophomoric attempt. Yet all the time we see these gun lovers tell us “what it was intended to mean,” and the biggest irony is that the “right,” just like all Constitutional rights, is not absolute, it can be regulated


I am only referring to ONE document the Founders wrote/ published, i.e; THE US CONSTITUTION, which is (STILL) America's SUPREME LAW. (And), in particular, I am drawing your attention to one part of the US Constitution,; namely THE 2nd AMENDMENT. I know the Founders were prolific authors, but in this post, I repeat, am only concerned with what they wrote in the 2nd Amendment..



Dachshund - the Wonder Hound


DLM....Dachshund Lives Matter !!
 
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