New peak rates mean charging electric cars more expensive than petrol

[ExpressLane]

Obviously you are a libtard who is illiterate in many things.

I have a few questions for you:

[1] Who paid for the aforementioned solar PV unit?
[2] How much did the payor pay for it?
[3] Who pays for the maintenance of the aforementioned solar PV unit?
[4] How much is the payor paying for that maintenance?
[5a] Does the aforementioned solar PV unit include a method of energy storage?
[5b] If not, then who paid for the energy storage method?
[5c] If not, then how much is the payor paying for that energy storage method?
[6] Are you REALLY saving money with a solar PV unit??
[7] Are you REALLY charging/driving for free?

And the government (you and I) paid for a healthy portion of his car.
And the batteries in his Bolt will eventually need to be replaced. So know he is not driving for free.

 

[Lionfish]

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Obviously you are a libtard who is illiterate in many things.

I am a liberal. I am not illiterate in as many things as you wish I were.

I have a few questions for you:

[1] Who paid for the aforementioned solar PV unit?

Me, why?

[2] How much did the payor pay for it?

Enough. But many, many years ago.

[3] Who pays for the maintenance of the aforementioned solar PV unit?

And what "maintenance" are you referring to? Washing them off? That would be me and the rain.

[4] How much is the payor paying for that maintenance?

Well, in the 7 years we've had the ones on our current house the maintenance cost has been exactly $0. For the 9 years we had the one on our previous house the maintenance cost was, again, exactly $0. I'm sure things go wrong from time to time and work will be needed on them, but it isn't enough to track as a monthly cost.

[5a] Does the aforementioned solar PV unit include a method of energy storage?

No.

[5b] If not, then who paid for the energy storage method?

Again, that would be me.

[6] Are you REALLY saving money with a solar PV unit??

Yeah, Yeah I am. I don't pay a monthly electricity bill and I don't pay for fuel for my car.

[7] Are you REALLY charging/driving for free?

Yup. It would appear so.

 

[Althea]

I'd love to see some EV driver do this one. I got a side job to go to Winslow AZ (Yea, the one from the song--) and inspect an office building for electrical issues. I drove from Phoenix to Prescott AZ to stop by a friend's house there before going to Winslow, then back to Phoenix all in one day. That was about a 500 mile round trip all in one day. Try doing that in your EV. The route is almost entirely remote rural territory too. No gas stations, no charging stations, nada, nothing, zip point shit.

Which is why hybrids are the answer for someone like you. I'm guessing your new truck gets 20 mpg if you are lucky. Those who live in the city, or suburbs can enjoy EV with no worries. Especially fleet vehicles with a parking garage.

 

[ExpressLane]

I'm not Joe Capitalist.



I can agree with that. But then in the last, ummm.....30 years or so I have had little need for either a cross-country vehicle or a remote area vehicle. I wouldn't recommend an EV for anyone like that. For the remote area vehicle I wouldn't even recommend most regular cars...I'd suggest AWD or 4WD.

Which are available in several makes and models of ICE cars.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

And the government (you and I) paid for a healthy portion of his car.

No you do not. I paid full price for the car.

And the batteries in his Bolt will eventually need to be replaced. So know he is not driving for free.

As will many parts of YOUR ICE vehicle.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Which are available in several makes and models of ICE cars.

Hence why I said I wouldn't recommend an EV for those people.

What was problematic about that answer?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Mine works fine. You see, there are people like me who know what the ACTUAL experience is like. Then there's YOU who knows nothing about what it is like to own and rely on one.

I'm not saying they are perfect, god no! But they are good and they WILL get better.

That's kind of what America is all about: moving the ball down the field. We invent things and we make things better. That's always been what we do.

Why are you fighting progress SO HARD?



You mean the way the first ICE car could do 0-60 in a matter of seconds, got 25 miles to the gallon, could reach top speeds of 110mph? Oh, wait, no, they were nothing like that. They were nicely appointed lawn mowers without the blades.



See? You see technical progress as "fascism".

Have you ever actually "invented" anything? Any patents?

And, I have no problem with that, with one caveat: You and the car maker receive no, ZERO government subsidy for that EV. That is to include charging stations. The government should not be paying to put these in out of tax dollars.

The first ICE vehicles were faster than a horse. They could go further between stops for maintenance and servicing than a horse. They cost less to operate than a horse. They could carry more load than a horse. In every way possible, they were better than horses almost from the start.
After WW 1, the US Army did studies on horses v. mechanization with ICE vehicles. They found ICE vehicles beat horses in virtually every possible use. That led to the demise of using horses in the military.

Progress isn't EV's. I can see fuel cell cars being progress, but EV's are a step backwards. Fuel cell vehicles can be integrated into current infrastructure, EV's can't. Fuel cell vehicles use a portable fuel, EV's don't.

I see FORCED-- and that is what EV's currently are, FORCED by government on us, and you can't deny that--as fascism. It is authoritarian and totalitarian on the part of government to force us into buying a product because that's what they want and demand. That goes for virtually any product.

No, I have never patented anything. That's not what I do. On the other hand, I have invented better ways to do stuff in manufacturing of various things. For example, I was in charge of the production of the first batch of 400 ADU-801E SLAM/ER adapter brackets for use on Aero 58E munitions trailers. Kind of obscure, but I made those for the ENTIRE DoD across all services. As part of that, I redesigned a rubber pad that had to be molded onto one part. The original design called for using a two-part polyurethane potting compound from PRC corporation.

https://www.ppgaerospace.com/Products/Sealants.aspx

A description

I took one look at that and rejected it out-of-hand. Doing things that way would cost easily a quarter to half-a-million dollars in labor, time, materials, rework, and molds.

I suggested a change in materials to a batch Buna rubber that had the same, or better, properties as the PRC product. The difference was the new process took all of 10 minutes, including prep time versus an expected 4 hours per part with the PRC product. I would need one mold at $1500 versus at least 10 to 15 for the PRC due to the length of time involved per part and the expected rework. Rework was expected to go from 50% (the PRC product is notorious for small air bubbles in the castings) to virtually zero. The buna rubber would also cost about 10% of the PRC product. The savings overall was estimated at about $90,000 to $150,000.

Got a nice letter of commendation from an Admiral for that.

I know stuff and fix things. That's what I do.

I want what works. EV's don't work in most situations. They are more expensive and inflexible in their design than ICE vehicles, just as solar and wind are losers for generating electricity.

 

[Althea]

A non sequitur on your part. Riddle me this Batman... Why can't EV's gain market share without huge government subsidies and forced purchase mandates? There isn't one country on the planet where government hasn't had to intervene in the market to force people to buy EV's. Why is that?

Probably for the same reason the govt. MUST subsidize nuclear and fossil fuels.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

And, I have no problem with that, with one caveat: You and the car maker receive no, ZERO government subsidy for that EV. That is to include charging stations. The government should not be paying to put these in out of tax dollars.

Indeed. THE VERY SECOND we eliminate all subsidies (direct and indirect) to petroleum companies. I'm all for it.

The first ICE vehicles were faster than a horse.

Hmmm, not sure about that. Top speed of a Model T was only about 40-45mph but the top speed of a horse is 55mp or thereabouts.

They could go further between stops for maintenance and servicing than a horse.

That's great. Except in the early 1900's there were almost no gas stations anywhere around. But you could feed and take care of a horse pretty much everywhere.

They cost less to operate than a horse.

Probably not initially.

Progress isn't EV's. I can see fuel cell cars being progress,

I actually got to work on hydrogen storage for fuel cell vehicles in one of my postdocs. Yeah, fuel cell vehicles ain't gonna be on the horizon for a while. Certainly not for personal transport. Most people don't like giant compressed hydrogen tanks strapped to their car and the solid-state storage (mostly metal hydrides) isn't very efficient. So, yeah, no.

At a transportation fuels conference I attended in Norway about 20 years ago or so it was generally felt that if H2 storage couldn't be cracked that fuel cell vehicles would always be a niche in the market. Seems that the intervening 20 years have proven that point. And if you go with one that uses something like methanol you are still stuck with a carbon fuel source.

No, I have never patented anything. That's not what I do. On the other hand, I have invented better ways to do stuff in manufacturing of various things.

You can patent that stuff. (But your employer probably prefers it to be kept a "trade secret" which is still a legitimate form of IP)

I want what works. EV's don't work in most situations.

My EV has worked in every situation I've thrown at it since I got it 3 years ago. And the EV before that (a much smaller car with a much smaller range) also did what it needed to do quite effectively. And, again, I can't stress this enough, I don't ever have to go to the gas station and I don't pay for the electricity that charges my car. It's free. I can't figure out why this is bad in your view.

They are more expensive and inflexible in their design than ICE vehicles, just as solar and wind are losers for generating electricity.

Gotta disagree. Just because you don't see the potential of the future doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[ExpressLane]

Hence why I said I wouldn't recommend an EV for those people.

What was problematic about that answer?

EV are niche vehicles currently (pun intended). I'll give you an example I have a family farm in East Texas it is about 300 miles from where I live. So I might be able to drive there on a single charge but when I got there I would need to recharge on a 110 charger which takes 60 hours per Tesla ( 5 miles per 1 hour of charging on a 110 volt charger). My mom is 92 and lives there so I frequently drive down one day and back the next just to check on her. I would not be able to make a two day trip down one day and back the next. There are no fast chargers near the farm. So I would need a ICE car as a backup for my Tesla. I'll admit that I have considered a Tesla for my wife and I'll just keep driving my F250 so I can make quick trips to the farm. And for hauling our tractor and my 5th wheel. The thing is my ICE can do everything EV can do and much much more.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Probably for the same reason the govt. MUST subsidize nuclear and fossil fuels.

Except the government doesn't subsidize those. Nuclear receives government insurance backing against the project failing to complete because of cost, but that's the extent of that. In fossil fuels, energy companies receive little, if any, direct subsidies. Instead, most of the money coming from government is going into their cleaning up environmental sites that predate environmental laws because they have the expertise to do that work, or it is going into things like R&D the government wants done that wouldn't otherwise be done, like biofuels for military use.

 

[gfm7175]

I don't have solar because of my roof orientation but I love charging my EV in my garage.

What is the source of your electricity? Is it dirty evil "fossil fuels"?
If so, then how are you "saving the planet"?
What are you plugging your EV into? A regular wall outlet? A special charging port? How long does it take to charge it?

No trips to the gas stations for me.

Right. EVs don't run on gasoline, so there's no need for a gas station. You'll be making trips to various electrical outlets instead.

No toxic gas fumes.

Right. The "toxic gas fumes" are instead being emitted from the power plants that you're using to charge your EV. How is that "saving the planet"?

No spilling gas.

Right. EVs don't run on gasoline, so there's no need to fill them up with gasoline.

No waiting in line.

I don't wait in line either.

No paying rising gas prices.

Right. EVs do not run on gasoline. You'll be paying rising electricity prices instead.

I love my EV.

Fine by me. I love my ICE vehicles.

I can efficiently transfer heavy materials over long distances with them.
I can travel long distances with them with very little down time for refueling.
I can get them started in bone cold weather.
I can get inside of them in bone cold weather.
I can service them myself, or have any mechanic service them at any garage for much less money than having to go to specialized shops for servicing.
It is financially feasible to replace my batteries in my vehicles.

 

[gfm7175]

Close...actually 300 miles on a full charge.

ONLY in prime conditions and ONLY at the beginning of your battery's life.

Wrongo.

No, he's correct. Your vehicle doesn't have the range that his does.

Well, you PAID for the fuel for your car. I don't.

You didn't pay for your solar PV unit? You didn't pay for any maintenance for that unit?

 

[leaningright]

 

[Saint Guinefort]

ONLY in prime conditions and ONLY at the beginning of your battery's life.

Just like your gas mileage!

No, he's correct. Your vehicle doesn't have the range that his does.

I don't expect an EV to have the same range as a truck. Nor did I claim it did. I can only tell you what my experience is with my actual EV.

English error: Inconsistent tenses.

Good catch!

Math errors: You didn't pay for your solar PV unit? You didn't pay for any maintenance for that unit?

Sunk cost.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

EV are niche vehicles currently (pun intended). I'll give you an example I have a family farm in East Texas it is about 300 miles from where I live. So I might be able to drive there on a single charge but when I got there I would need to recharge on a 110 charger which takes 60 hours per Tesla ( 5 miles per 1 hour of charging on a 110 volt charger). My mom is 92 and lives there so I frequently drive down one day and back the next just to check on her. I would not be able to make a two day trip down one day and back the next. There are no fast chargers near the farm. So I would need a ICE car as a backup for my Tesla. I'll admit that I have considered a Tesla for my wife and I'll just keep driving my F250 so I can make quick trips to the farm. And for hauling our tractor and my 5th wheel. The thing is my ICE can do everything EV can do and much much more.

Do you honestly think that all cars are intended to be interchangeable with all trucks? That's confusing. Why would you compare things like that? Do you use a hammer when removing screws?

 

[Althea]

Except the government doesn't subsidize those. Nuclear receives government insurance backing against the project failing to complete because of cost, but that's the extent of that. In fossil fuels, energy companies receive little, if any, direct subsidies. Instead, most of the money coming from government is going into their cleaning up environmental sites that predate environmental laws because they have the expertise to do that work, or it is going into things like R&D the government wants done that wouldn't otherwise be done, like biofuels for military use.

There is no nuke plant in the nation that wasn't subsidized when built. In fact, those in the planning stages are not going to get built without govt. investment. Same for those that are losing money right now.

WASHINGTON – Nuclear energy companies, most of whose costs exceed revenues, are often filing for bankruptcy to obtain federal subsidies.
“According to the data we gathered nuclear power plants are losing money right now, some of them to the extent where they can’t even pay their coming up cost,” said Dan Shawhan, a fellow at Resources for the Future.
To offset the losses, nuclear plants in Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Connecticut, New York and Ohio have gained subsidies under a federal programm called Zero Emissions Credits, also known as ZEC contracts. They are payments that electricity generators receive to compensate them for not emitting greenhouse gases. These contracts were specifically awarded to nuclear plants facing imminent closure.

Same for every type of energy in the R&D stage, as you admitted.

 

[gfm7175]

I am a liberal.

Yes, you are a libtard.

I am not illiterate in as many things as you wish I were.

Yes, you are. You display such illiteracy as I have noted below.

Me, why?

Illiteracy in economics/accounting/mathematics: If you are charging your EV with power generated from your solar PV unit, then the cost of that solar PV unit is associated with the charging of your EV. You are not charging your EV for free.

Enough. But many, many years ago.

Illiteracy in mathematics: "Enough" is not a numerical value. Why are you too much of a pansy ass to tell us how much you paid for it?

And what "maintenance" are you referring to? Washing them off? That would be me and the rain.

Including but not limited to:
Debris/snow removal
Cleaning
Inspection/repair re: damage/functionality

Well, in the 7 years we've had the ones on our current house the maintenance cost has been exactly $0. For the 9 years we had the one on our previous house the maintenance cost was, again, exactly $0. I'm sure things go wrong from time to time and work will be needed on them, but it isn't enough to track as a monthly cost.

Illiteracy in economics/accounting/mathematics: water & other cleaning materials are not free. Time is not free. Repairs are not free.

No.

Interesting. So you have no power at night time and piddle power on cloudy days?

Again, that would be me.

Illiteracy in logic: You can't pay for something that you never acquired.

Yeah, Yeah I am. I don't pay a monthly electricity bill

Right, because you already paid for most of that cost up front.

and I don't pay for fuel for my car.

Illiteracy in economics/accounting/mathematics: Yes you do. You pay for it via the costs associated with acquiring and maintaining your solar PV unit.

Yup. It would appear so.

This is your illiteracy in economics/accounting/mathematics speaking once again.

 

[ExpressLane]

ONLY in prime conditions and ONLY at the beginning of your battery's life.


No, he's correct. Your vehicle doesn't have the range that his does.


You didn't pay for your solar PV unit? You didn't pay for any maintenance for that unit?

The batteries have a finite life so like it or not he is paying to drive his car.