Gas up to 4.69 in my area today

[LV426]

Duh. The capitalist system is based on profit. Obscene or otherwise. Why do you care?

Because you're trying to pin oil companies' profit motives on the President, who has no control over company policy.

You understand that increasing the supply lowers the price per barrel, right? And that in turn lowers profits.

So it's never really in an oil company's interest to increase production because that means more supply and lower prices, and thus lower profit.

Do you understand that, or do I need to draw a picture?

 

[LV426]

Yes, the state controlled the means of production. But the communist manifesto wanted the workers to seize control.

In 1918 Russia, the workers were the state. They were the same people. There was no secondary Communist party.

You know what's inscribed on Karl Marx's tombstone? "Workers of the world, unite!". And that system did NOT work!

It worked so well that the US had to send the CIA in to destabilize countries that did just that. See: Iran, practically all of Central America, etc.

You're not really a student of history, are you? You stop at the superficial and are barely skin deep.

I'll take "dozens and dozens of recessions" over one really LOOOONG depression any day.

The Soviet Union was never in a Depression, other than the one your guy Hoover and the Conservatives caused because of Laissez-Faire CAPITALISM.

Russia fell apart because of perestroika and the famine, not because of any US policy or capitalism.

And if not for the US government bailing it out, our economy would have been destroyed in 1933, and never would have recovered. Same for 1989. Same for 2001. Same for 2008. Same for 2020.

Socialism has always been there to bail out capitalism, but that has never, ever happened the other way around.

 

[LV426]

You think I'm wrong, find a Russian immigrant and ask them about their work experience in the old USSR. Soviet workers had a saying, "THEY PRETEND TO PAY US, AND WE PRETEND TO WORK."

So since you're now drifting into anecdote land, I take this as a tacit admission that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

I'm not saying the USSR was perfect or was preferable to Capitalism, I'm just saying that Capitalism has the same excesses Communism has, only Capitalism has Socialism to bail itself out.

The USSR never had a recession as we know it in the West, and it didn't even really have a Depression either because of the state ownership and control of the economy. The excesses of Capitalism just weren't there, so there were no bank runs in the USSR, no job loss, no people jumping out of windows because they lost all their savings by gambling on the markets.

It has never failed, or else we would have another system in place.

You're kidding, right? It has failed three times in the last 20 years alone...requiring bailouts each time.

2001, 2008, 2020.

That was just this century.

Since 1989, there have been no less than 5 industry bailouts.

If that's not failure, then what is it?

 

[LV426]

It has never failed, or else we would have another system in place. And exactly how has "government action" ever saved it other than implementing sounder economic policies?

TARP, Auto bailouts, airline bailouts, S&L bailouts, dotcom bailouts, oil company bailouts, and a total and complete economic bailout just two years ago, 14 years after the last one.

Aren't you paying attention????

 

[LV426]

Has the US ever experienced a period of 75 consecutive years of economic stagnation, lack of innovation, and substandard living and working conditions?

Who put a man into space first, the US or USSR?

You can't prove that there was economic stagnation in the USSR or a lack of innovation since the USSR is the one who spearheaded the smallpox vaccine because there was no profitable way for capitalists to do it.

And substandard living and working conditions? EVER BEEN TO ALABAMA?????

 

[LV426]

And it's funny you mention depressions, because what we call the great depression here in the USA, was actually a WORLDWIDE depression, as is the recession we're in today.

Except that you know who didn't get affected by the Depression? The USSR. Their economy grew and expanded during the 1930's.

And we're not in a recession today since GDP has not declined for two consecutive quarters. In fact, GDP is up.

 

[LV426]

Your precious Russians came out of the great depression into WW2, out of WW2 back into a depression from which they eked out a severe recession

None of this is true, firstly because the USSR wasn't affected by the Depression like we were.

No bank runs.

No food lines.

No job loss.

No suicides.

No fascists.

You can't say the same thing about the good ole USA, can you? In fact, we had food lines here just two years ago because you called COVID a hoax and it turned into a global pandemic.

 

[LV426]

Is it just the oil and gas industry that's got your panties twisted up?

You seem to be the one unable to deal with the fact that the oil and gas industry are in it solely for profit, and they achieve that profit by cutting production in order to drive up the price per barrel and thus their profits.

To you, it's unfathomable that a corporation would dare not address US demand, but that's what happens.

Remember, all oil companies have the same objective: to make the highest profits possible. You don't make those profits by decreasing the price of your commodity.

Unless you do think that, in which case I'd say you probably shouldn't be allowed near a P&L ever. EVER.

 

[LV426]

And at what point is it price gouging

It's all price gouging because their objective is to make the highest profits they can.

Welcome to capitalism, doofus.

ecause it's a slippery slope. Lots of people out there making profits, and they're probably obscene profits, by your standards.

Right, but what separates the oil industry is that increasing the supply drives down the price, which drives down their profits.

And there is no way that they can make that up by increasing production; doing so is like pretending that you can dig yourself out of a hole.

Again, simple math to determine what has more value: 1000 barrels @ $100/barrel or 10,000 barrels @ $1/barrel?

 

[Nordberg]

I suppose rightys were not aware of what was happening in America during the era of mergers and acquisitions. Companies got big enough to control markets creating an oligopoly. True competition stopped before most of you were born.
When I was young, there were many gas companies in competition. They had price wars, gave great service, and treated customers well. There were many dept stores fighting over prices and providing great customer service. If you were dissatisfied with something you bought, they replaced it at the store.
Now it is your job to communicate with the manufacturer. They are abroad and do not care about your problems. Tough shit.
The wealthy and corporations have all the power. They want high prices(all the traffic will bear). They want to gut regulation because they do not want to spend on keeping the environment clean. They can live anywhere. They want to keep wages low. They have certainly succeeded. The workers are not getting a living wage. Too bad.

 

[Taichiliberal]

POST #182

Still waiting for an answer. Can anyone supply one?

 

[Callinectes]

So then why did you call me Nixonian if what I propose (nationalization) has nothing to do with what Nixon did?

Because I made a mistake! I thought you were looking for wage and price controls, which Nixon DID do. I just didn't think anyone was stupid enough to be a cheerleader for communism. Sorry.

How else can you explain why every single oil company has made record profits for the last two years? They are artificially constraining supply in order to increase demand, and thus increase the price per barrel.

It's a complicated, convoluted conundrum for a communist to understand, but I believe in you and I know you can do it! You see, they pulled a substance out of the earth that was in great demand, and they sold it at a higher price than it cost them to pull it out of the earth. Also, the oil companies don't set the prices. Use the internets to find out who does.

The only motive oil companies have is profit, and they achieve profit by keeping the price of oil high...so it is never in their interest to ramp up production to meet US demand because that means less profits.

Of course their motive is profit, comrade. And once again, the oil companies don't set the prices. One thing they will do though, they'll regulate the pumping of crude if it starts costing more to pump it out of the ground than they can earn by selling it (ie., when they're not making a profit).

What has more value: 1000 barrels @ $100/barrel or 10,000 barrels at @ $1/barrel? I know that's probably advanced math for you, but I believe in you and know you can do it!

Irrelevant, and unrealistic.

 

[LV426]

Because I made a mistake! I thought you were looking for wage and price controls, which Nixon DID do. I just didn't think anyone was stupid enough to be a cheerleader for communism. Sorry.

It wasn't the first mistake you've made, not even on this thread. But at least you're acknowledging you fucked up. That's a lot more than what your Nazi pals will admit to.

Where did I ever cheerlead Communism?

You've been cheerleading fascism, so what gives?

 

[LV426]

It's a complicated, convoluted conundrum for a communist to understand,

It's very simple to understand: Oil companies will only extract the exact amount of oil necessary to achieve the highest possible profits, and they do that by decreasing production in order to raise the price per barrel because oil is a global commodity traded on global markets.

 

[LV426]

You see, they pulled a substance out of the earth that was in great demand, and they sold it at a higher price than it cost them to pull it out of the earth. Also, the oil companies don't set the prices. Use the internets to find out who does.

OPEC sets the global price because OPEC is a cartel that controls a plurality of production...enough to affect pricing on global markets.

OPEC can and has increased production in an attempt to bankrupt the US oil industry on many occasions, the latest being in 2015 when OPEC increased production so much that the price per barrel dropped by 50% and as a result over 100 oil and natural gas companies went bankrupt to the tune of about $100B. THEN, Congress passed a bailout for Texas, Oklahoma, and North Dakota because energy prices dropped and with them, tax revenue dropped. So those states went running to Uncle Sam for a handout because of fluctuations in the oil market thanks to OPEC choosing violence. It's the exact same thing that happened in Venezuela, only Venezuela didn't have Uncle Sam to save itself with welfare like TX, OK, and ND did.

Did you even know that happened, or are you learning about it for the first time here?

 

[LV426]

Of course their motive is profit, comrade.

Right, and do oil companies make more or less profit when the price per barrel is high?

It's a simple math equation: What has more value? 1,000 barrels at $100/barrel or 10,000 barrels at $1/barrel?

And once again, the oil companies don't set the prices.

But by constraining demand in order to get higher prices, they are doing precisely that.

Increasing or decreasing production is what will affect oil prices...so if you increase production, what happens to oil prices? They go down.

Now, are oil prices going down good or bad for the oil company's profit margins? It's good for consumers, of course, but it's not good for oil companies.

And not one single oil company is going to put consumers ahead of their profit motive.

You have a very juvenile perspective here.

 

[LV426]

Irrelevant, and unrealistic.

Completely relevant because it's math that undermines your argument.

An oil company will only extract the exact amount of oil necessary to achieve the highest possible profit margin, and that profit margin doesn't reach its highest levels if the price per barrel declines due to an increase in production.

 

[Callinectes]

Completely relevant because it's math that undermines your argument.

An oil company will only extract the exact amount of oil necessary to achieve the highest possible profit margin, and that profit margin doesn't reach its highest levels if the price per barrel declines due to an increase in production.

You are just proving my point that people start businesses here to make a profit, and to achieve the highest possible profit margin. Anything less is inefficient. And if oil becomes UNprofitable to extract, they will cease production completely and/or go out of business (which is probably what you want, because communism). At that point, we're pretty much fucked, and the Glorius People's Army of the Democratic Republic of America will frog march the angry oilfield workers back to the wells to pump oil for the people's petroleum refinery #25. They'll work for about $50 bucks a month. But at least no one will be making a profit.

 

[LV426]

You are just proving my point that people start businesses here to make a profit

I'm the one that's been saying that.

You are the one who has been trying to say otherwise, like how it's Biden's fault that oil companies cut production in order to make record profits.

Oil company profits run in direct conflict with consumers seeking lower energy prices.

Lower energy prices = lower profit margins.

So oil companies are purposefully not increasing production because doing so reduces their profit margin.

Explaining capitalism to capitalists is just so fucking annoying.

 

[LV426]

And if oil becomes UNprofitable to extract, they will cease production completely and/or go out of business (which is probably what you want, because communism).

The only way oil becomes unprofitable to extract is if you increase the supply and drive down the price.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.