Cities Around Ukraine Rocked as Russia Launches New Wave of Strikes

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anatta

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*Russia’s attack combined cruise missiles and drones, Ukraine’s military says.

*Ukrainians could spend the New Year holidays in the dark.

*The latest Russian strikes are likely to renew Ukrainian appeals for air defense systems.

*For now, Russia’s economy fares better than expected under Ukraine sanctions.

*Belarus says it shot down a Ukrainian missile, the type Ukraine uses for air defense.

*The Biden administration tries to stop Iran from supplying Russia with drones.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/12/29/world/russia-ukraine-news
The attack comes as Kyiv is striking more boldly at targets deep in Russian territory. Russia’s Defense Ministry said this week that three soldiers were killed after air defenses shot down a Ukrainian drone approaching Engels air base, near Saratov, home to some of Russia’s nuclear-capable strategic bombers that are used to fire cruise missiles at Ukraine.

The governor of Russia’s Saratov region, Roman Busargin, said that Russian air defenses had shot down a drone on Thursday near the city of Engels, damaging a car and garage, but that no one was wounded.

Ukraine maintains a policy of not publicly claiming or denying responsibility for attacks in Russia, even as officials comment approvingly on them.
 
Zelensky has a 10, point peace plan -but wants negotiations by the UN (po-Ukrainian) -
and a "war crimes tribunal"
No territorial concessions

Russia wants the 4 oblasts. non negotiable

Now the war is expanding into Russia proper and Odesa, and what do we do? whistle past armegeddon
 
Putin refuses to take the off ramps he has been provided. He does not care how much suffering he causes his own people, the Ukrainians, and the rest of the world. I really do not know how some Americans can support him.
 
Russia launched 128 missiles/drones against Ukrainian infrastructure targets. The Zelenskies shot down 242 of them.
 
anatta said:
Russia wants the 4 oblasts. non negotiable
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Putin wants 4 Oblasts, only one of which they completely control on the ground. So Ukraine would be forced to give up territory to Russia.

Not to mention, Putin wants total disarmament of Ukraine, which is also non-negotiable.

So what does Ukraine get out of "peace". It gets a few months to watch Russia rebuild, and then attack again. That is not peace.

Unless we can get Ukraine real guarantees of peace, there is no real peace.
 
Walt said:
Putin refuses to take the off ramps he has been provided. He does not care how much suffering he causes his own people, the Ukrainians, and the rest of the world. I really do not know how some Americans can support him.
Click to expand...

It's Biden's Nord Stream war. The Russians are defending their borders against NATO aggression. This isn't pro-Russian sentiment- it's simply obvious fact.

Those that have chosen to support NATO's aggression must bear responsibility for Russia's response.
 
Walt said:
Putin refuses to take the off ramps he has been provided. He does not care how much suffering he causes his own people, the Ukrainians, and the rest of the world. I really do not know how some Americans can support him.
Click to expand...
i dont know anyone that "supports Putin"
I do know quite a few that want conditions placed on aid and accountability ( and not 3 guys taking inventory) :seenoevil:

Beyond that America needs to support a peace process. not led by the UN (Turkey might work)
instead of US escalation that has now expanded the war - getting closer to nukes.

Get the Europeans off from sitting on their wallets, and involved with designing talks
That's the only war this war of attrition ends
 
Walt said:
Unless we can get Ukraine real guarantees of peace, there is no real peace.
Click to expand...

Many Ukrainians are pro-Russian. The US-led coup invited civil war. Ukraine's route to peace is by way of a NATO withdrawal and the re-installation of a pro-Russian Ukrainian government.
Too bad about all the Ukrainian territory that western oligarchs have purchased. They'll have to relinquish it.
 
anatta said:
*Russia’s attack combined cruise missiles and drones, Ukraine’s military says.

*Ukrainians could spend the New Year holidays in the dark.

*The latest Russian strikes are likely to renew Ukrainian appeals for air defense systems.

*For now, Russia’s economy fares better than expected under Ukraine sanctions.

*Belarus says it shot down a Ukrainian missile, the type Ukraine uses for air defense.

*The Biden administration tries to stop Iran from supplying Russia with drones.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/12/29/world/russia-ukraine-news
The attack comes as Kyiv is striking more boldly at targets deep in Russian territory. Russia’s Defense Ministry said this week that three soldiers were killed after air defenses shot down a Ukrainian drone approaching Engels air base, near Saratov, home to some of Russia’s nuclear-capable strategic bombers that are used to fire cruise missiles at Ukraine.

The governor of Russia’s Saratov region, Roman Busargin, said that Russian air defenses had shot down a drone on Thursday near the city of Engels, damaging a car and garage, but that no one was wounded.

Ukraine maintains a policy of not publicly claiming or denying responsibility for attacks in Russia, even as officials comment approvingly on them.
Click to expand...

How is the Russian economy performing?
Instead of an expected growth of around 4% for 2022-2023, Russia's economy is expected to decline by 8% over those two years. Sanctions have hit production in key sectors very hard, and the effects will continue to mount
 
Walt said:
Putin wants 4 Oblasts, only one of which they completely control on the ground. So Ukraine would be forced to give up territory to Russia.

Not to mention, Putin wants total disarmament of Ukraine, which is also non-negotiable.

So what does Ukraine get out of "peace". It gets a few months to watch Russia rebuild, and then attack again. That is not peace.

Unless we can get Ukraine real guarantees of peace, there is no real peace.
Click to expand...
those are initial demands -from both sides. Demands arent a peace process. If we cant get Europe involved
( and they have been sitting on the sidelines) then nothing happens but more pulverizing Ukraine
 
moon said:
Many Ukrainians are pro-Russian.
Click to expand...

Almost none. It has been amazing how almost all Ukrainians have been willing to fight so hard against Russia's invasion. If many Ukrainians were pro-Russia, the war would have gone very differently.

moon said:
Ukraine's route to peace is by way of a NATO withdrawal
Click to expand...

Ukraine is not in NATO, and NATO is not in Ukraine, so nothing to withdrawal.

moon said:
and the re-installation of a pro-Russian Ukrainian government.
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The pro-Russian government cannot win elections, so the only way to install it would be for NATO to invade Ukraine and install it. That would sort of ruin your first demand.
 
moon said:
It's Biden's Nord Stream war. The Russians are defending their borders against NATO aggression. This isn't pro-Russian sentiment- it's simply obvious fact.

Those that have chosen to support NATO's aggression must bear responsibility for Russia's response.
Click to expand...

You seem to be scared of Putin! Is Pooty Boy your boogeyman? Did you also approve of Hitler's World aggressions and Butchery?
 
anatta said:
If we cant get Europe involved( and they have been sitting on the sidelines)
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The Europe has taken millions of refugees, hooked up Ukraine to their electrical network, and sent Ukraine a huge amount of military aid, especially considering that the EU is under defended, and in extreme threat from Russia.

They could do more, but what they have done is amazing.

Just the electrical grid part is amazing. It was assumed that it would take 2 years to get Ukraine unhooked from the Russian grid, and hooked up to the European grid. It was done in 2 weeks. Technicians from Europe actually entered a war zone, and installed equipment.

Both Europe and the USA deserve a lot of credit for this.
 
Walt said:
Almost none. It has been amazing how almost all Ukrainians have been willing to fight so hard against Russia's invasion. If many Ukrainians were pro-Russia, the war would have gone very differently.
Click to expand...

You may have noticed that the Ukrainian neo-Nazis have been shelling the pro-Russian Ukrainians of the Donbas since 2014. Now they have broken away entirely and are independent republics.


Ukraine is not in NATO, and NATO is not in Ukraine, so nothing to withdrawal.
Click to expand...

Don't be so naive.


The pro-Russian government cannot win elections, so the only way to install it would be for NATO to invade Ukraine and install it. That would sort of ruin your first demand.
Click to expand...

It was a pro-Russian Ukrainian government that the US worked to overthrow. Perhaps the survivors of the war will be glad to surrender and accept a new pro-Russian government for the sake of peace and security. It sure looks like they'll get neither if they don't.
 
Walt said:
The Europe has taken millions of refugees, hooked up Ukraine to their electrical network, and sent Ukraine a huge amount of military aid, especially considering that the EU is under defended, and in extreme threat from Russia.

They could do more, but what they have done is amazing.

Just the electrical grid part is amazing. It was assumed that it would take 2 years to get Ukraine unhooked from the Russian grid, and hooked up to the European grid. It was done in 2 weeks. Technicians from Europe actually entered a war zone, and installed equipment.

Both Europe and the USA deserve a lot of credit for this.
Click to expand...
Refugees are a byproduct of war. nothing noble about taking them in
Europe has NATO weapons and pleanty of money -it is afterall THEIR WAR - not the USA's concern
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But im talking about a peace process, The UN is far too biased and unwieldy, the USA cant do it,
Europe is in the region and could do it. .If not actually do it at least support it

Ukraine is getting pulverized, it's infrastructure demolished. Russia is getting hit inside it's territory.
Nobody wants to blink first. The way out is talks.talks lead to negotiations. no talks = no negotiations

Have you heard Biden ( or the Republican establishment ) even mention talks
All Congress /Biden do is send Zelensky blank checks..the dying and misery never stops

It's got to stop -agreed? so talk already
 
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