Government motors post clunker sales down 47%

Lowaicue said:
Neither did you.
I referred to 'foreign' brands being owned by American companies. BUT the BRAND is still foreign. The profits from those enterprises often do NOT come back to America and they tend NOT to create american jobs.
America cars are shitty for the reasons stated. Indeed most mechanical products hailing from your side of the world are crappy. Oversized, over powered and impractical and completely lacking in taste.
WTF is a Silverado? Some sort of cowboy?
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Actually most of those foreign brand cars are still made in America, so the money does come here.
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
Actually most of those foreign brand cars are still made in America, so the money does come here.
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I'm not sure what you mean by 'foreign brand'. But my point remains that AMERICAN BRAND cars are shitty. No one can now, in 2009, deny that fact.
Toyota are made in the states but it is still a foreign brand and you could make Rolls Royces in Detroit and they would still be a foreign brand.
 
Lowaicue said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'foreign brand'. But my point remains that AMERICAN BRAND cars are shitty. No one can now, in 2009, deny that fact.
Toyota are made in the states but it is still a foreign brand and you could make Rolls Royces in Detroit and they would still be a foreign brand.
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But both are made by Americans and the money goes into American pockets.

And for the record America can make some pretty decent cars.
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
But both are made by Americans and the money goes into American pockets.

And for the record America can make some pretty decent cars.
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There is little point in continuing this discussion. You have missed the main points completely. I must, in all seriousness, ask you if you know just what is meant by the word 'brand' and what is meant by a 'Plan B'?
But before we leave the matter completely answer this: Does Toyota contribute to the US economy?
I am sure that America can make some pretty decent cars but the tendency is to make garbage and, to make matters worse, to manage the manufacture of that garbage like a five year old would tackle a secondary school entrance exam.
 
Lowaicue said:
There is little point in continuing this discussion. You have missed the main points completely. I must, in all seriousness, ask you if you know just what is meant by the word 'brand' and what is meant by a 'Plan B'?
But before we leave the matter completely answer this: Does Toyota contribute to the US economy?
I am sure that America can make some pretty decent cars but the tendency is to make garbage and, to make matters worse, to manage the manufacture of that garbage like a five year old would tackle a secondary school entrance exam.
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Your obvious bias against America aside, I'll gladly Apologize. I am sorry that I misunderstood you.

Yes Toyota does contribute to the American economy. I never said anything about a 'Plan B' so what you mean by that is unknown to me. As for the meaning of brand it is you who seems to keep changing the meaning.

You originally stated that American car companies do poorly overseas. I countered with the fact that many of these companies are, in fact, owned by larger American corporations. You then said that it doesn't matter because those 'foreign' cars do not contribute to the American economy, which since they are mostly made in America, they do.
 
CaptBillyTheKid said:
Your obvious bias against America aside, I'll gladly Apologize. I am sorry that I misunderstood you.

Yes Toyota does contribute to the American economy. I never said anything about a 'Plan B' so what you mean by that is unknown to me. As for the meaning of brand it is you who seems to keep changing the meaning.

You originally stated that American car companies do poorly overseas. I countered with the fact that many of these companies are, in fact, owned by larger American corporations. You then said that it doesn't matter because those 'foreign' cars do not contribute to the American economy, which since they are mostly made in America, they do.
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I accept your apology. Thank you. I will also apologise if I did not make myself clear. I was talking in general terms. I should have said American car companies tend to be poor exporters.
Doesnt the fact that Toyota contribute the the American economy suggest that American owned foreign brands with overseas manufacturing facilities contribute to the host country? ipso facto their contribution to America in terms of returned profits and jobs is diluted. Which was one of my points.
Plan B is the planning that should have been in place before the 'cash for clunkers' scheme was introduced. Like Iraq there was no exit strategy. It hadnt been thought through. Now there seems to be a possibility of further bailouts!
It was clear, and I proposed long before this scheme, that inventories had to be reduced to pull manufacturing back. But to limit the scheme to such a short window was a mistake. You really have to sustain artificial growth until natural growth takes over and that could be two years!! or you let the car companies disappear.
Well, if they do disappear, their places will be filled by new entrepreneural companies hopefully with a more environmentally friendly means of private transport. Oil at $200 within 5 years is going to dictate.
 
Watermark said:
It's a truck notable for always being in second place behind Ford's F-150.
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On the subject of pickups...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrk6vsb77xk"]YouTube - Top Gear - killing a Toyota pt 1 - BBC[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uc4Ksz3nHM&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=793CABDF042A9514"]YouTube - Top Gear - killing a Toyota Pt 2 - BBC[/ame]
 
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Lowaicue said:
Neither did you.
I referred to 'foreign' brands being owned by American companies. BUT the BRAND is still foreign. The profits from those enterprises often do NOT come back to America and they tend NOT to create american jobs.
America cars are shitty for the reasons stated. Indeed most mechanical products hailing from your side of the world are crappy. Oversized, over powered and impractical and completely lacking in taste.
WTF is a Silverado? Some sort of cowboy?
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Dude, you're giving your self away. The Silverado and the F-150 are the two most popular makes of vehicles in the world. More popular then any make by BMW, Volkwagen, The Civic, Corolla, Camry or Accord. If you don't know what a Silverado is, you probably don't know much about the auto industry.
 
uscitizen said:
Yes better upper management at ford than GM.

They still build crappy cars though ;)
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Bite me! ;)

Ford is presently the most forward looking auto manufacturer in the world and have surpassed both Toyota and Honda in it's quality standards and reliability, not to mention the F-150 is still the best selling make of car in the world.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Dude, you're giving your self away. The Silverado and the F-150 are the two most popular makes of vehicles in the world. More popular then any make by BMW, Volkwagen, The Civic, Corolla, Camry or Accord. If you don't know what a Silverado is, you probably don't know much about the auto industry.
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The Toyota Corolla is the world's most popular car having outsold the Volkswagon Beetle at 32 million.
Toyota also takes the prize for the most popular make of car.
I know nothing of the auto industry since it is exclusively American. We, in the UK, used to have a motor car industry and both Japan and Korea have thriving motor industries.
Once again, I hate to disappoint my avid readers, but America is not the world, does not represent the world, is no longer the most important economy in the world, so something that American people like is of very little consequence in the rest of the world. I have never heard of a Silverado. I doubt that I have ever SEEN more than a couple of hundred American cars in my long life. I have NEVER seen one in Hong Kong (not including brands purchased by American companies) apart from a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado which had been shipped in as a publicity stunt. Now THAT had the wow factor!!. The fords I have seen, and indeed driven, have been manufactured in Germany and the UK.
I have seen mentioned here that the Ford F-150 is, in fact not a car but a truck and assume that this Silverado is also a commercial vehicle. I have never lived in a society where commercial vehicles are driven by non commercial drivers.
So perhaps in a society that is forced to carry nails and timber to maintain its wooden houses such a vehicle is a necessity. I will bow to your superior knowledge.
To me a car is, and always has been, a means of getting me to and from my place of work. Some of the cars I have owned: Armstrong Siddeley Lanchester, Daimler 4.2 Vanden Plas, Ford Sierra (several), Toyota Corolla (several), Mitsubishi Lancer (2), a very old Citoen 2CV and an extremely old Morris MO series. I think there were probably some more but I am not going to go through a poor memory to satisfy this forum.
 
Lowaicue said:
Oh mahhh! And you really show your intelligence, doncha?
Dont bother to reply. I doubt that I will read any more of your childish stupidity.
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as much as my banter is refreshingly juvenile, my serious aguments are incisive, keenly analytical, profound and succinctly stated.

I'm a double edged sword where both edges are good, instead of one of those catch-22 swords.
 
Lowaicue said:
This is what I said:

"Certainly it has plants overseas and certainly these bring in revenue and profit, but less comes back to the US per car than from straight exports and fewer American people work..."
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well of course less money comes back to the US on cars US automakers produce overseas. That is a given.

The same holds true for the cars that Toyota makes in the US. This is due (as you pointed out) to the jobs being created in the foreign market place.
 
Lowaicue said:
The Toyota Corolla is the world's most popular car having outsold the Volkswagon Beetle at 32 million.
Toyota also takes the prize for the most popular make of car.
I know nothing of the auto industry since it is exclusively American. We, in the UK, used to have a motor car industry and both Japan and Korea have thriving motor industries.
Once again, I hate to disappoint my avid readers, but America is not the world, does not represent the world, is no longer the most important economy in the world, so something that American people like is of very little consequence in the rest of the world. I have never heard of a Silverado. I doubt that I have ever SEEN more than a couple of hundred American cars in my long life. I have NEVER seen one in Hong Kong (not including brands purchased by American companies) apart from a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado which had been shipped in as a publicity stunt. Now THAT had the wow factor!!. The fords I have seen, and indeed driven, have been manufactured in Germany and the UK.
I have seen mentioned here that the Ford F-150 is, in fact not a car but a truck and assume that this Silverado is also a commercial vehicle. I have never lived in a society where commercial vehicles are driven by non commercial drivers.
So perhaps in a society that is forced to carry nails and timber to maintain its wooden houses such a vehicle is a necessity. I will bow to your superior knowledge.
To me a car is, and always has been, a means of getting me to and from my place of work. Some of the cars I have owned: Armstrong Siddeley Lanchester, Daimler 4.2 Vanden Plas, Ford Sierra (several), Toyota Corolla (several), Mitsubishi Lancer (2), a very old Citoen 2CV and an extremely old Morris MO series. I think there were probably some more but I am not going to go through a poor memory to satisfy this forum.
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You are correct that the Corolla has now obtained the number one slot worldwide. However, it was the F150 that it surpassed, not the beetle. The beetle is third. Also note, that it wasn't until the past couple of years that Corolla finally overtook the F150.

I also agree that most American cars sucked for the past 4 decades. So it is not too surprising that you don't see many American vehicles, especially if you live in Hong Kong now and if I remember correctly London prior to that. You are not going to tend to see too many F150's or other trucks in NYC or Chicago either (though you will see more SUV's than in Hong Kong).
 
Superfreak said:
You are correct that the Corolla has now obtained the number one slot worldwide. However, it was the F150 that it surpassed, not the beetle. The beetle is third. Also note, that it wasn't until the past couple of years that Corolla finally overtook the F150.

I also agree that most American cars sucked for the past 4 decades. So it is not too surprising that you don't see many American vehicles, especially if you live in Hong Kong now and if I remember correctly London prior to that. You are not going to tend to see too many F150's or other trucks in NYC or Chicago either (though you will see more SUV's than in Hong Kong).
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But the F-150 is not a car, is it? I think someone said it was a truck? As for SUVs one of the worst things about HK is the number of stupidly oversized cars. SUVs are all over the place, mostly driven by diminutive females, who can't see over the bonnet, as school transport. A lady friend of mine who drove a 500SL was 'instructed' by her husband that she must henceforth drive a Lexus 4 wheel drive because 'everyone' has Mercs. I remember going for lunch and her parking it outside the club. It was like a Lexus used car lot!
My own staff, when I had them, showing a strange discontent when I chose a Mitsubishi Lancer. They said it did not reflect well on them.
 
Superfreak said:
well of course less money comes back to the US on cars US automakers produce overseas. That is a given.

The same holds true for the cars that Toyota makes in the US. This is due (as you pointed out) to the jobs being created in the foreign market place.
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Unfortunately it was necessary for me to belabour the point.
 
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