A smarter way forward for real conservatives, for America

B

blackascoal

The Force is With Me
It occurs to me that I need to make the distinction between conservatives and the right-wing. In my opinion, conservatives are every bit as intelligent, thoughtful, and concerned about this nation as anyone else on this board or in this country. They are capable of presenting their ideas and perspectives in a thoughtful and respectful manner. They are capable of reaching consensus and being respectful of divergent opinion.

There are several real conservatives here who offer opinion that should be listened to and digested .. even if in the end I still disagree. One of my civil rights heros is coinservative Republican Senator Everett Dirksen from Illinois .. who distanced himself from racist lunatics and led republicans to signing historic civil rights legislation.

The problem for the real conservatives here and throughout the greater society is that they've aligned themselves with the far-right .. who are correctly percieved to be just a bunch of lunatics who scream at everything they don't have the capacity to understand. Conservatives have allowed the far-right to take over their party and take over the discourse coming from the right.

The better way forward .. dump the lunatics and take your party back.

Surprisingly, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of all people, seems to be getting this message.

Republican: anti-Obama birthers 'crazy'

Sen. Lindsey Graham , the Republican senator from South Carolina who helped Sen. John McCain of Arizona campaign for president, has a suggestion for some of the more radical elements of his own party challenging President Barack Obama:

"I'm here to tell you that those who think the president was not born in Hawaii are crazy," Graham said at a "First Draft of History'' conference sponsored by The Atlantic, The Aspen Institute and the Newseum in Washington.

He also had a word for FOX News Channel's Glenn Beck:

"Cynic.''

Graham "offered unusually blunt assessments of the fringe elements of his party and conservative media,'' the Huffington Post's Sam Stein notes.

"Only in America can you make that much money crying," Graham said today of Beck.

"Glenn Beck is not aligned with any party,'' he said. "He is aligned with cynicism and there has always been a market for cynics. But we became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers."

-- more at link
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/10/republican_antiobama_birthers.html

Dump the lunatics and racists .. yes, you know they are there .. and take your party back .. and you'll attract a better core constituency.

There are genuine issues to challenge Obama on .. but they don't get heard over the screaming from your lunatic fringe.

America needs sane voices an it needs real debate and discussion on how we go forward and how we deal with global challenges. America needs sane conservatives.

Let the lunatics go off and create the Palin Party .. get your self-respect back.
 
They can't win national or most state-wide election without the teabaggers, the dixiecrats, the Limbaugh dittoheads and the racists.

that's why they won't jettison them. It's a deal with the devil the GOP made back as far as the Southern Strategy, and perfected by Reagan's dog whistles to the sons of the confederacy.

Do you really think, outside of social issues like guns and abortions, the conservative agenda has any real popular support? The GOP has been overwhelmingly against every major progressive advance this country has made, including social security, medicare, the New Deal, medicaid, and consumer and labor protections. The only substantial things the republicans have ever been successful with is tax cuts for the affluent, massive defense spending, and propogating the myth of deregulation of big business. Oh, and outlawing gay marriage. How'd that all work out?
 
Graham is a putz.

Beck is more an american than graham could ever dream of being.

but beck has his issues too, he's still thinks the g-20 protesters are "liberals".
 
BAC. You have it backwards. The real conservatives are beck supporters. Elected republicans are inside the beltway sold out corporatist hacks. Real conservatives are rejecting the Repuke party in droves. That's why Yawn McStain lost.
 
really bac, this thread was pathetic. I've never seen a more calculated ploy to invert reality.

Elected republicans the "true conservatives"? You know that's a load. I can't believe you even tried to pull this off. Laughable.
 
blackascoal said:
It occurs to me that I need to make the distinction between conservatives and the right-wing. In my opinion, conservatives are every bit as intelligent, thoughtful, and concerned about this nation as anyone else on this board or in this country. They are capable of presenting their ideas and perspectives in a thoughtful and respectful manner. They are capable of reaching consensus and being respectful of divergent opinion.

There are several real conservatives here who offer opinion that should be listened to and digested .. even if in the end I still disagree. One of my civil rights heros is coinservative Republican Senator Everett Dirksen from Illinois .. who distanced himself from racist lunatics and led republicans to signing historic civil rights legislation.
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Well, no shit!
You find a distinction between Conservative and right-wing
You think conservatives are as intelligent, and concerned about this nation as anyone else in this country...etc.....
And its only taken you what, 40, 50 years to grasp that ? Well... Aren't you a genius.....


And you say:

"The better way forward .. dump the lunatics and take your party back.

Dump the lunatics and racists .. yes, you know they are there .. and take your party back .. and you'll attract a better core constituency.

Let the lunatics go off and create the Palin Party .. get your self-respect back."
Click to expand...

Sarah Palin is one of those "lunatics" the Conservatives need to jettison....?
If Palin is a lunatic, fuckin' Reid and Pelosi and Obama's inner circle of czars ought to be in institutionalized with adjoining cells.....asap !

And, speaking of dumping the lunatics, how soon will the Liberals (Democrats) openly condemn lunatics like, Bill Maher, or Jon Stewart, or Keith Olbermann, or Whoopie Goldberg, or Joy Behar, or Rosie O'Donnell, or Michael Moore, or even Chris Matthews.....
Thats gonna happen real soon right???

and I don't mean just you,....I mean famous crazies of your party....maybe Reid or Pelosi are finally gonna condemn the likes of Maher or Olbermann, etc....?

They're gonna step up and condemn the character assassination of good people that occurs on the Letterman show?.....SNL?.....etc....on a daily basis.
I don't think so....


Can you say...."Liberals are the biggest Hypocrites on the face of the earth" ?
.
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The teabagger right should be ejected. That will cause a split in the vote which will lead to liberal hegemony, and that will be the greatest period of American history.
 
Solid thread, I agree with all of BAC's points. I would also say, along the lines of Cypress, that conservatism lost out around the time Andrew Jackson rose to power, so its nothing new. Its been a slew of compromises ever since to try and keep the Dems out of power.
 
blackascoal said:
It occurs to me that I need to make the distinction between conservatives and the right-wing. In my opinion, conservatives are every bit as intelligent, thoughtful, and concerned about this nation as anyone else on this board or in this country. They are capable of presenting their ideas and perspectives in a thoughtful and respectful manner. They are capable of reaching consensus and being respectful of divergent opinion.

There are several real conservatives here who offer opinion that should be listened to and digested .. even if in the end I still disagree. One of my civil rights heros is coinservative Republican Senator Everett Dirksen from Illinois .. who distanced himself from racist lunatics and led republicans to signing historic civil rights legislation.

The problem for the real conservatives here and throughout the greater society is that they've aligned themselves with the far-right .. who are correctly percieved to be just a bunch of lunatics who scream at everything they don't have the capacity to understand. Conservatives have allowed the far-right to take over their party and take over the discourse coming from the right.

The better way forward .. dump the lunatics and take your party back.

Surprisingly, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of all people, seems to be getting this message.

Republican: anti-Obama birthers 'crazy'

Sen. Lindsey Graham , the Republican senator from South Carolina who helped Sen. John McCain of Arizona campaign for president, has a suggestion for some of the more radical elements of his own party challenging President Barack Obama:

"I'm here to tell you that those who think the president was not born in Hawaii are crazy," Graham said at a "First Draft of History'' conference sponsored by The Atlantic, The Aspen Institute and the Newseum in Washington.

He also had a word for FOX News Channel's Glenn Beck:

"Cynic.''

Graham "offered unusually blunt assessments of the fringe elements of his party and conservative media,'' the Huffington Post's Sam Stein notes.

"Only in America can you make that much money crying," Graham said today of Beck.

"Glenn Beck is not aligned with any party,'' he said. "He is aligned with cynicism and there has always been a market for cynics. But we became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers."

-- more at link
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/10/republican_antiobama_birthers.html

Dump the lunatics and racists .. yes, you know they are there .. and take your party back .. and you'll attract a better core constituency.

There are genuine issues to challenge Obama on .. but they don't get heard over the screaming from your lunatic fringe.

America needs sane voices an it needs real debate and discussion on how we go forward and how we deal with global challenges. America needs sane conservatives.

Let the lunatics go off and create the Palin Party .. get your self-respect back.
Click to expand...
Good stuff, can't give you reps!
 
sweet....it's "Give The Opposition Advice Day"!.......

as for the left, get some brains and return to being the party of Hubert Humphrey, Joe Lieberman, and Zell Miller.....if you don't act before it's too late you have no future.....
 
Threedee said:
Solid thread, I agree with all of BAC's points. I would also say, along the lines of Cypress, that conservatism lost out around the time Andrew Jackson rose to power, so its nothing new. Its been a slew of compromises ever since to try and keep the Dems out of power.
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You're an elitist fascist progressive. No suprises here.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sweet....it's "Give The Opposition Advice Day"!.......

as for the left, get some brains and return to being the party of Hubert Humphrey, Joe Lieberman, and Zell Miller.....if you don't act before it's too late you have no future.....
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Graham is a soft spoken moderate conservative who is as out of touch with what average American's want as Obama is. That's why liberal progressives and socialist's like him. He's basically a fence sitter with his finger in the political wind....reminds of Clinton who's a moderate liberal.
 
Cypress said:
They can't win national or most state-wide election without the teabaggers, the dixiecrats, the Limbaugh dittoheads and the racists.

that's why they won't jettison them. It's a deal with the devil the GOP made back as far as the Southern Strategy, and perfected by Reagan's dog whistles to the sons of the confederacy.

Do you really think, outside of social issues like guns and abortions, the conservative agenda has any real popular support? The GOP has been overwhelmingly against every major progressive advance this country has made, including social security, medicare, the New Deal, medicaid, and consumer and labor protections. The only substantial things the republicans have ever been successful with is tax cuts for the affluent, massive defense spending, and propogating the myth of deregulation of big business. Oh, and outlawing gay marriage. How'd that all work out?
Click to expand...

Hate to break it to ya, but this is still a conservative-leaning country. According to poll after poll, liberals such as yourself constitute less than 20% of Americans of voting age. Compare that to conservatism, which makes up between 35 - 40% and continues to grow.

Like it or not, most Americans reject the Democrats' big-government agenda. That is why there will be no "public option." If there is one, Democrats risk a landslide defeat in the House or Representatives in the midterms.
 
blackascoal said:
It occurs to me that I need to make the distinction between conservatives and the right-wing. In my opinion, conservatives are every bit as intelligent, thoughtful, and concerned about this nation as anyone else on this board or in this country. They are capable of presenting their ideas and perspectives in a thoughtful and respectful manner. They are capable of reaching consensus and being respectful of divergent opinion.

There are several real conservatives here who offer opinion that should be listened to and digested .. even if in the end I still disagree. One of my civil rights heros is coinservative Republican Senator Everett Dirksen from Illinois .. who distanced himself from racist lunatics and led republicans to signing historic civil rights legislation.

The problem for the real conservatives here and throughout the greater society is that they've aligned themselves with the far-right .. who are correctly percieved to be just a bunch of lunatics who scream at everything they don't have the capacity to understand. Conservatives have allowed the far-right to take over their party and take over the discourse coming from the right.

The better way forward .. dump the lunatics and take your party back.

Surprisingly, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of all people, seems to be getting this message.

Republican: anti-Obama birthers 'crazy'

Sen. Lindsey Graham , the Republican senator from South Carolina who helped Sen. John McCain of Arizona campaign for president, has a suggestion for some of the more radical elements of his own party challenging President Barack Obama:

"I'm here to tell you that those who think the president was not born in Hawaii are crazy," Graham said at a "First Draft of History'' conference sponsored by The Atlantic, The Aspen Institute and the Newseum in Washington.

He also had a word for FOX News Channel's Glenn Beck:

"Cynic.''

Graham "offered unusually blunt assessments of the fringe elements of his party and conservative media,'' the Huffington Post's Sam Stein notes.

"Only in America can you make that much money crying," Graham said today of Beck.

"Glenn Beck is not aligned with any party,'' he said. "He is aligned with cynicism and there has always been a market for cynics. But we became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers."

-- more at link
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/10/republican_antiobama_birthers.html

Dump the lunatics and racists .. yes, you know they are there .. and take your party back .. and you'll attract a better core constituency.

There are genuine issues to challenge Obama on .. but they don't get heard over the screaming from your lunatic fringe.

America needs sane voices an it needs real debate and discussion on how we go forward and how we deal with global challenges. America needs sane conservatives.

Let the lunatics go off and create the Palin Party .. get your self-respect back.
Click to expand...
Sound advice but they won't take it until they have to. First, they would have to become virtually a permanent minority in all branches of government, which has not occurred yet. Second, don't underestimate the degree and volume of racism present in rural white America. Rednecks still abound in this country in vast numbers. Giving up a base of that size will not come easy.

The advantage the Republicans have is that they have a solid, motivated, passionate core of voters that is larger and more motivated and dependable then the core Democrat constituents. The problem the Republicans have is that this right wing core alienates everyone else with its extremism and intransigence and thus cannot build a winning coalition.

So for the Republicans to tell the redneck knuckle draggers and mouth breathers to go fuck off, won't come easy or happen any time soon.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Sound advice but they won't take it until they have to. First, they would have to become virtually a permanent minority in all branches of government, which has not occurred yet. Second, don't underestimate the degree and volume of racism present in rural white America. Rednecks still abound in this country in vast numbers. Giving up a base of that size will not come easy.

The advantage the Republicans have is that they have a solid, motivated, passionate core of voters that is larger and more motivated and dependable then the core Democrat constituents. The problem the Republicans have is that this right wing core alienates everyone else with its extremism and intransigence and thus cannot build a winning coalition.

So for the Republicans to tell the redneck knuckle draggers and mouth breathers to go fuck off, won't come easy or happen any time soon.
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Our intransigence is not race based. It's from a valid distrust of government, which is proving more and more to be a pawn of internationalist fascist corporations.

We will defeat you easily, because you delude yourself by accepting the gross mischaracterizations presented in the media. You can never win until you honestly understand your opponent. Your obsessive need to spin reality is precisely what keeps you from understanding reality, and is the cause of your general loserdom.
 
Tabasco said:
Hate to break it to ya, but this is still a conservative-leaning country. According to poll after poll, liberals such as yourself constitute less than 20% of Americans of voting age. Compare that to conservatism, which makes up between 35 - 40% and continues to grow.

Like it or not, most Americans reject the Democrats' big-government agenda. That is why there will be no "public option." If there is one, Democrats risk a landslide defeat in the House or Representatives in the midterms.
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So what? The problem with that argument is, is that at present the Democratic party is more of a center right party then the Republican party is by far.

You're argument is hollow. America may be a center right nation politically but the republican party is dominiated by far right extremist. The Democrats are dominated by center right, moderates and a growing true conservative constituency because the Republican far right wing base won't allow for a middle of the road compromise to move forward.

Read Ice Dancers post previous to yours. It's a perfect example of a far right winger with a case of projection accusing others of being out of touch.

In other words, America may be a center right nation but it's also the nation that invented liberal democracy and made it the greatest form of government in the history of the world. One thing this nation is NOT is far right wing reactionary and that's why the Republican party is in a world of hurt.

What you also fail to mention or ask is why have so many center right people like me (and I"m definately center right to conservative on economic issues) have left the Republican party (I was a Republican for over 20 years)? Why?

Because we can't tolerate the right wing reactionary extremist in the party who have taken it over.

Graham and Voinavich are right. They are the voices of reason and sanity within the Republican party. People like Ice Dancer are just plain out of touch with mainstream America and what's bizarre, is that they think they are mainstream America. Aint that a hoot?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
So what? The problem with that argument is, is that at present the Democratic party is more of a center right party then the Republican party is by far.

You're argument is hollow. America may be a center right nation politically but the republican party is dominiated by far right extremist. The Democrats are dominated by center right, moderates and a growing true conservative constituency because the Republican far right wing base won't allow for a middle of the road compromise to move forward.

Read Ice Dancers post previous to yours. It's a perfect example of a far right winger with a case of projection accusing others of being out of touch.

In other words, America may be a center right nation but it's also the nation that invented liberal democracy and made it the greatest form of government in the history of the world. One thing this nation is NOT is far right wing reactionary and that's why the Republican party is in a world of hurt.

What you also fail to mention or ask is why have so many center right people like me (and I"m definately center right to conservative on economic issues) have left the Republican party (I was a Republican for over 20 years)? Why?

Because we can't tolerate the right wing reactionary extremist in the party who have taken it over.

Graham and Voinavich are right. They are the voices of reason and sanity within the Republican party. People like Ice Dancer are just plain out of touch with mainstream America and what's bizarre, is that they think they are mainstream America. Aint that a hoot?
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LOL. the republican party barely represents conservatives anymore.

The republican party is just the same as the dem party, sold out to corporations who are waging a war on the middle class, using a corrupt government to facilitate the destruction.

your problem is not with "far right elements of the republican party". You're now up against Americans who simply don't want to be slaves.

As I said before, your need to spin reality is precisely why you can't comprehend it, and why you are a loser.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
can you give me an example of the Democrats who embody the "center right".......
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Well from your perspective, considering your part of the far right polity, I doubt that I can do that cause in your mind anything slightly to the left of Attila the Hun would be a commie pinko liberal. From my perspective Democrats that I know to be moderate to center right would include, Evan Baye, Ben Nelson, Bob Conley, Pete Geren, Gabrielle Giffords, Brad Carson, John Tanner, Jim Matheson, Loretta Sanchez, Charlie Wilson, Mike Thompson, Gene Taylor, John Tanner, Zack Space, Heath Schuler, David, Scott, Adam Schiff, Mike Ross, Earl Pomeroy, Collin Paterson, Glenn Nye, Marion Berry (the one from Arkansas, not DC), Bob Casey, Jr are just a few that come to mind. Now again, with your being a member of the far right I understand that these are all pinko commies to you but most of the nation, who are not of the far right, considers these people to be moderate to center right to conservative and all are Democrats.
 
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