Russia warns Sweden and Finland against Nato membership

Walt said:
Putin threatens the Baltic States, but does not invade them because they are in NATO. That is a strong warning to join NATO and avoid Russia invading.
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There are many people here that believe they know what Russian leaders think who don't even know what American leaders think. Propaganda victims.
 
dukkha said:
Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia as a NATO weapons armed pro-west state
willing to act as a proxy war for NATO
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Ukraine poses zero existential threat to Russia, and hasn't for 500 years.

I can understand Putin does not want a NATO nation on his southern border.

But first, Ukraine wasn't in NATO and there was no indication on the horizon it would be, and second you do not address the situation by commiting war crimes on the Ukranian people.
 
Cypress said:
Ukraine poses zero existential threat to Russia, and hasn't for 500 years.

I can understand Putin does not want a NATO nation on his southern border.

But first, Ukraine wasn't in NATO and there was no indication on the horizon it would be, and second you do not address the situation by commiting war crimes on the Ukranian people.
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then why not take NATO membership off the table? seems everyone "knew" except they wouldn't say so.
Putin formally asked for Ukraine to be declare neutral - why not do it?
BECAUSE THE NEOCONS DONT WANT PEACE - and there are neocons in the Biden adm
 
dukkha said:
then why not take NATO membership off the table? seems everyone "knew" except they wouldn't say so.
Putin formally asked for Ukraine to be declare neutral - why not do it?
BECAUSE THE NEOCONS DONT WANT PEACE - and there are neocons in the Biden adm
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You don't commit the worst war crimes in Europe since Hitler, and reduce once vibrant Ukranian cities to smoking piles of ash based on the perception of a theoretical threat 20 years over the horizon.
 
Gin Saké said:
Is infrastructure spending what deters invasion, or is it defense spending?
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Infrastructure spending becomes defense spending. For instance, first the government built the Tennessee Valley Authority, a massive infrastructure spending on hydro electric dams. Then they built the Oak Ridge Labs, a massive infrastructure spending on developing the nuclear bomb, that used the Tennessee Valley Authority for electricity. The lower level workers could not figure out why so much stuff went into the lab, and nothing came out. The bomb components that came out were so small and infrequent they seemed like nothing.

Well all that infrastructure spending resulted in two Japanese cities being destroyed.

On the other side, Hitler built highways and train lines to move his armies back and forth from the Eastern to Western fronts.

Infrastructure makes our country stronger, which makes our defense stronger.
 
dukkha said:
1.Russia in no way could ever attack a NATO state and not get hammered for doing so
I'm sure i dont need to explain why
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Russia has already done cyber attacks and assassination attacks against NATO states, and gotten away with it. One of Putin's possible solutions to the problem you layout is the gradual attack, where he does not do a blatant attack.

The other solution he is thinking about is breaking up NATO. He has worked hard to break off the USA and UK from NATO. France is already half out NATO. That would not leave enough of NATO to really oppose him.

Or he could just do a crazy attack. Sometimes he does not think before acting.


dukkha said:
2. China -not Russia -is the global threat.
Russia doesn't have any reach beyond Europe (except hypersonic missiles and bombers)
and partners with China - no threat there either to Asia.
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Russia has more global military reach than China does. And it definitely has reach beyond Europe. They do not even need to leave their own country to leave Europe. The majority of their land is in Asia.

There can be multiple threats to America. China, Russia, Muslim terrorists, etc., the world is full of threats.

dukkha said:
I don't pin the actual war on anyone but Putin. He made a terrible mistake for Russia and for the suffering Ukraine people.
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I applaud your honesty. So far, you seem to be just debating policy questions, and not making bizarre personal attacks. That makes you a saint in this date and age.

dukkha said:
But that doesn't absolve NATO from their role (NATO expansion, uber-militarization of Ukraine,sending vast amounts of aid to a pro-western and encouraging Kyiv to go up against Russia)
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Almost no military aid was sent to Ukraine to oppose Russia's original attacks. Military aid was only sent in any numbers when Russia started attacking Ukrainian majority areas.

Most of the aid sent to Ukraine before that was aid in getting their economy and government into shape. Rooting out corruption and that sort of thing. That was worse for Russians than military aid, because it showed that corruption could be rooted out of Russia too.


dukkha said:
all this could have been avoided. Putin has been saying for years this was unacceptable
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Yes, Putin is very particular that a successful independent Ukraine cannot be allowed to happen, but we cannot hold back the Ukrainians just to allow Russia to be held back too.

dukkha said:
It's not like he suddenly decided to reconstitute the USSR
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At points he has said that reconstituting the USSR is his plan, but other times he expands that out to the Russian Empire (including Finland and most of Poland). Beyond that, he wants dominance over Western Europe, which no Russian entity ever had.

dukkha said:
NATO was there to stick it to him - not a "defensive posture" as the Russiaphobes claim
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The EU allowed visa free travel from Ukraine. Putin demanded they stop that, because it was increasing economic ties between Ukraine and the EU... Was the only reason that the EU wanted to trade with Ukraine to stick it to Putin?

Russian used to believe that Michael Jackson worked for the CIA, and the only reason he created music was to lead Russian astray. No matter how much I explained that Jackson's market in the USA was absolutely huge, and I doubt he cared one bit about his effects on Russia, they believed it was all about him.

This feels like the same thing. Putin is sure that modernizing Ukraine is an attempt to make Russia look backwards, rather than just an attempt to modernize Ukraine.
 
Walt said:
Russia has already done cyber attacks and assassination attacks against NATO states, and gotten away with it.
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The Russians have denied this. Proof ?

Because the western media spouts this stuff, Walt- does not mean that it is true.

Iraqi WMD ?
 
Walt said:
Russia has already done cyber attacks and assassination attacks against NATO states, and gotten away with it. One of Putin's possible solutions to the problem you layout is the gradual attack, where he does not do a blatant attack.

Russia has more global military reach than China does. And it definitely has reach beyond Europe. They do not even need to leave their own country to leave Europe. The majority of their land is in Asia.


Most of the aid sent to Ukraine before that was aid in getting their economy and government into shape. Rooting out corruption and that sort of thing. That was worse for Russians than military aid, because it showed that corruption could be rooted out of Russia too.




Yes, Putin is very particular that a successful independent Ukraine cannot be allowed to happen, but we cannot hold back the Ukrainians just to allow Russia to be held back too.


The EU allowed visa free travel from Ukraine. Putin demanded they stop that, because it was increasing economic ties between Ukraine and the EU... Was the only reason that the EU wanted to trade with Ukraine to stick it to Putin?

Russian used to believe that Michael Jackson worked for the CIA, and the only reason he created music was to lead Russian astray. No matter how much I explained that Jackson's market in the USA was absolutely huge, and I doubt he cared one bit about his effects on Russia, they believed it was all about him.

This feels like the same thing. Putin is sure that modernizing Ukraine is an attempt to make Russia look backwards, rather than just an attempt to modernize Ukraine.
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everybody does cyber-attacks. China by far is the worst offender. But I dont hear anyone saying that is warlike behavior - because China has a lot of sway and political and corporate interests wit the USA
so we dont make a big deal about what is a much bigger deal to our national security -Chinese hackers
in industry and military

China global reach - including "soft power" far exceeds Russia and the USA as well
But give them 10 years and their hard power at least in numbers will be greater then the USA


The military aid changed under Trump because "call me colonel Vindman" and those creeps equated Ukraine pro-west nationalism to our global security. These are the people who dont want to negotiate - just send more and more offensive arms
The rest of your characterizations are so twisted it's too tedious to deconstruct
 
moon said:
Russia warns Sweden and Finland against Nato membership

Maybe somebody will actually listen to them this time.
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No, Sweden and NATO ignored Vlad's bluster and empty threats, and Vlad had to shut up and meekly accept two powerful new NATO members and a new 800 mile shared border with a freshly minted NATO country.
 
Cypress said:
No, Sweden and NATO ignored Vlad's bluster and empty threats, and Vlad had to shut up and meekly accept two powerful new NATO members and a new 800 mile shared border with a freshly minted NATO country.
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The Swedish leader who was cajoled into asking for NATO membership has just been voted out.
Finland's elections are in six months.
 
moon said:
And what will you do if Sweden withdraws its membership request, bugler ?
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Support their choice. The point all the Jihadists and other assholes are missing is that nations have a right to choose.
 
moon said:
And what will you do if Sweden withdraws its membership request, bugler ?
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I went five decades of my life without Sweden being in NATO, so it won't affect my life.

On the other hand, all your 'tanks closing in on fortress Kyiv', and 'street fighting in Kyiv' threads illustrate, you have expectations and hopes about the events surrounding this war that are frequently and hilariously shattered by facts.

I put no faith in your hopes Sweden will withdraw from NATO
 
Moon forgot to ban me from this thread.

Moon is also a pigfucking asshole who sucks pus from Putin's syphilitic cock sores.

Too bad I won't be able to read his stupid reply to this because I have him on ignore.
 
Cypress said:
I went five decades of my life without Sweden being in NATO, so it won't affect my life.

On the other hand, all your 'tanks closing in on fortress Kyiv', and 'street fighting in Kyiv' threads illustrate, you have expectations and hopes about the events surrounding this war that are frequently and hilariously shattered by facts.

I put no faith in your hopes Sweden will withdraw from NATO
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Again- my posts on the subject are reports, dumbass. You, on the other hand , repeatedly play ' Hypocrisy ' on your bugle.


Now fess up- you haven't got over being ' gotchered '

Haw, haw.............................haw.
 
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