Please explain/justify this

T. A. Gardner said:
I can object based on reading reviews and on the basis of descriptions of the book that are readily available. What your objection amounts to is a logical fallacy in the form of the Courtier's reply. I could level the same claim towards you. That is If you don't know the content of the book how can you recommend it?

The rest of your response amounts to a Special pleading. It amounts to an argument for Critical Pedagogy in which the English class by choosing this book becomes a teachable moment amounting to political indoctrination. That is, you recommend the book not on its literary content, which would be appropriate to an English class, but on its historical and political content. How is that appropriate as the reason to choose the book in an English class?

Maus is fine as high school literature. But it shouldn't be used in an English class, for example, if the intent is to teach about the Holocaust rather than improve the student's writing and speaking abilities. If a student chose the book for say, a book report that'd be fine since the intent of the lesson is to get the student to write better.

What you continue to do is conflate this book's indoctrination and propaganda value because of its subject matter with its value as a literary work. English class shouldn't be an opportunity for those teaching in a public school to subtly push a political agenda on the students.
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Literature class is different than English class. Have you ever taken one? Is Tale of Two Cities "indoctrination"? Anne Frank? The Grapes of Wrath? Literature class teaches the student to consider the language and how it is used, how plot and character are developed, and to contrast and compare with contemporary writings. English class is just what you said -- teaches the basics of reading and writing.

The trouble with today's triggered Reichwingers is that they are like bored suburban teenagers. They have more freedom, material goodies, and easier lives than 98% of humans in all of our history. So like bored teens, they go looking for trouble and shit to get worked up about. These books -- like Maus, like When the Emperor Was Divine -- are the perfect targets for their manufactured fears and angers.

The rest of your post is just psychobabble drivel so will not be addressed.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
It is, and so are most of the other Reichwing sources I've read, particularly the blogs and Breitbart and so on.

Poor pEarl. Can you get him some smelling salts? He's definitely having a huge freak-out over this and those icky icky gays as well. It really smarts when the tanks of truth roll over his dumb ass. :rofl2:
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Yep, even back in the early 60's when I was in JHS we were required to subscribe to a weekly version of one of NY's papers so we could discuss current events in a weekly Social studies class for that purpose. At the time there were 7 major newspapers in NYC. 2 being tabloids; the NY post and the NY daily news written on a 6th grade level with lots of picture content. we never used those
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Maus is fine as high school literature. But it shouldn't be used in an English class, for example, if the intent is to teach about the Holocaust rather than improve the student's writing and speaking abilities. If a student chose the book for say, a book report that'd be fine since the intent of the lesson is to get the student to write better.

What you continue to do is conflate this book's indoctrination and propaganda value because of its subject matter with its value as a literary work. English class shouldn't be an opportunity for those teaching in a public school to subtly push a political agenda on the students.
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Do we not want to indoctrinate all children to believe the Holocaust was evil?
 
Whythink said:
Do we not want to indoctrinate all children to believe the Holocaust was evil?
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I think it is better to give them factual evidence and let them make their minds up on their own by the time they reach adulthood. Or, are you suggesting we indoctrinate them on a whole raft of things so they think the "right way?"
 
anatta said:
well I dont think Anne Frank needed context..but it's surely fine literature
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This novel probably doesn't need that much context either. "Class, our next assignment will be reading 'When the Emperor Was Divine.' This novel is about the experience of Japanese-Americans who were sent to internment camps during World War II. At that time, Americans were concerned that Japan might have planted some enemies within our borders, ready to strike once Pearl Harbor was attacked."

What other context would they need?
 
guno said:
Yep, even back in the early 60's when I was in JHS we were required to subscribe to a weekly version of one of NY's papers so we could discuss current events in a weekly Social studies class for that purpose. At the time there were 7 major newspapers in NYC. 2 being tabloids; the NY post and the NY daily news written on a 6th grade level with lots of picture content. we never used those
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You had an excellent education. We didn't have to subscribe personally since we already got one of St. Louis's only two daily papers. But we had to read the articles and write about the current events stuff. We also had to write a letter to the editor.

I wish schools would do this now, only digitally of course. It is a great way to keep students aware of current events, and also teaches critical thinking.
 
Whythink said:
Do we not want to indoctrinate all children to believe the Holocaust was evil?
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We should be indoctrinating them that any time a government takes freedom and property from its citizens, we must demand to know WHY and it should involve judicial/legal oversight.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
You had an excellent education. We didn't have to subscribe personally since we already got one of St. Louis's only two daily papers. But we had to read the articles and write about the current events stuff. We also had to write a letter to the editor.

I wish schools would do this now, only digitally of course. It is a great way to keep students aware of current events, and also teaches critical thinking.
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Yes, we were very aware what was going on nationally and internationally and learned to think critically , always questioning
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I think it is better to give them factual evidence and let them make their minds up on their own by the time they reach adulthood. Or, are you suggesting we indoctrinate them on a whole raft of things so they think the "right way?"
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Make up their minds on whether slavery is okay? Whether incarcerating a country's citizens without due process is okay? Whether discrimination based on ethnic, race, religious, gender, or nationality is okay? Are you serious? What about rape and/or pedophilia? Should we teach them merely that some men rape and let them make up their minds later if that's cool or not? Are you entirely lacking in principles or something?
 
guno said:
Yes, we were very aware what was going on nationally and internationally and learned to think critically , always questioning
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Even though we lived in Missouri at the time, we received a fairly similar education. I do believe though that we weren't given all the information regarding America's past, particularly our treatment of former slaves, some immigrants, and the indigenous people.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I think it is better to give them factual evidence and let them make their minds up on their own by the time they reach adulthood. Or, are you suggesting we indoctrinate them on a whole raft of things so they think the "right way?"
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If my child's teacher presents a unit on the Holocaust in a way where my child concludes it was ok, or necessary, or a positive for Germany that is a problem.

There are certain evils in history.

Slavery, Holocaust for example that don't really have "both sides".

I would be more concerned about a book being used as curriculum that is sympathetic to Hitler than one critical of Japanese Internment Camps.

No?

Moreover, the lack of blunt denouncement of Japanese Internment Camps is exactly why Muslim Americans were mistreated after 9/11. We failed to teach that lesson and allowed a second generation of Americans to allow fear and hate lead to racism and violence/unjustified incarceration.
 
Boy, Facebook is truly watching...


This happens to pop up, such perfect timing...

"Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."

When Elie Wiesel died on this day six years ago, the world lost one of its most eloquent and influential voices in Holocaust memory.

At age 15, in May 1944, Elie was deported to Auschwitz with his family.

After surviving the Holocaust, he waited ten years to write about his experiences. Elie penned his haunting memoir, "Night," which has helped millions grasp the human toll of the Holocaust through the eyes of a teenager.

At a time when the world could not bear to remember, Elie could not forget. He gave voice to those who had been silenced forever and devoted his life to fulfilling the promise of Never Again. He was a Holocaust survivor, teacher, Nobel laureate, and founding chairman of our Museum.
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ThatOwlWoman said:
Even though we lived in Missouri at the time, we received a fairly similar education. I do believe though that we weren't given all the information regarding America's past, particularly our treatment of former slaves, some immigrants, and the indigenous people.
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"History is written by the winners'
I was taught all that but it wasn't being taught to flagellate oneself over it, like Shi'a Muslim on Ashura

The emphasis by the left today is the USA is evil ,racist to the core, and must be torn down and rebuilt.
screw that noise
It' sthe same process used during Mao's Cultural Revolution
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
This novel probably doesn't need that much context either. "Class, our next assignment will be reading 'When the Emperor Was Divine.' This novel is about the experience of Japanese-Americans who were sent to internment camps during World War II. At that time, Americans were concerned that Japan might have planted some enemies within our borders, ready to strike once Pearl Harbor was attacked."

What other context would they need?
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that's enough. as long as the reasoning is presented fully.
 
Earl said:
No, God won’t be asking about the two “married” men down the street because God has already determined their fate.
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Luke 6:37

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned."

Gateway*Matthew 7*:: NIV. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

The arrogance to believe you know how God will judge is the real sin.
 
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Whythink said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out...ect-schools-roll-lgbtq-restrictions-rcna36143

"Some school officials have been accused of warning teachers not to wear rainbow articles of clothing and to remove pictures of their same-sex spouses from their desks."

Some makes me nervous. Usually that means a minimal amount. Usually used to scare and divide. However, it does negate the "no it is not" narrative.
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Figures Guno would thanks this bullshit. Guno is a butt fucking twink.
 
Whythink said:
If my child's teacher presents a unit on the Holocaust in a way where my child concludes it was ok, or necessary, or a positive for Germany that is a problem.

There are certain evils in history.

Slavery, Holocaust for example that don't really have "both sides".

I would be more concerned about a book being used as curriculum that is sympathetic to Hitler than one critical of Japanese Internment Camps.

No?

Moreover, the lack of blunt denouncement of Japanese Internment Camps is exactly why Muslim Americans were mistreated after 9/11. We failed to teach that lesson and allowed a second generation of Americans to allow fear and hate lead to racism and violence/unjustified incarceration.
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As I've already pointed out, some Italian- and many German-Americans were rounded up and interned too. Some of the German-American internees were held until 1954.
 
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