Make the Fathers Pay

ExpressLane said:
I'm 100% for the father being on the hook. But there are homes that assist single moms and assist with adoption. Edna Gladney is just one of them.
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Far too few of them. Do these "homes" make up all those missed paychecks during the pregnancy and after the birth? I bet not. The ones I've seen are constantly begging just for things like clothes, bedding, cash, etc.

Funny how conservatives are all in favor of personal responsibility and paying your own way. But you all are also eager to throw down spike strips in front of women who try to do just that, by forcing them to have kids that they cannot provide for. How quick you are to throw someone who wants to be independent on the public dole.

You fools are illogical and fascist. I bet not a single one of you forced-birthers has adopted a child, let alone a non-white child and/or one with mental or physical defects.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Far too few of them. Do these "homes" make up all those missed paychecks during the pregnancy and after the birth? I bet not. The ones I've seen are constantly begging just for things like clothes, bedding, cash, etc.

Funny how conservatives are all in favor of personal responsibility and paying your own way. But you all are also eager to throw down spike strips in front of women who try to do just that, by forcing them to have kids that they cannot provide for. How quick you are to throw someone who wants to be independent on the public dole.

You fools are illogical and fascist. I bet not a single one of you forced-birthers has adopted a child, let alone a non-white child and/or one with mental or physical defects.
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My wife and I offered to adopt my niece who was born to an unwed mom. Her mother ALMOST went through with an abortion. And thankfully her mother changed her mind about the abortion and kept my niece. My wife and I have always financially helped with things like buying her mom a car to get to work in, child care , clothes, food, and education. Now my niece is 37 married to an engineer and has two beautiful kids. Abortion would have taken all three of their lives. And two of them have wombs.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello ThatOwlWoman,



I am all for responsible parenting. I do not support mandatory DNA testing, nor the government keeping files and records on all men.

If she names a father and he admits it then he should be held responsible. If he voluntarily offers a DNA test to prove it is not the case, then he should not be held responsible despite her claims. If a judge rules there is supporting evidence to warrant a DNA test and orders it, that is fine. It would need to be on court order and there would have to be convincing evidence to support the order.

It cannot be that a woman simply names a name and he is then obligated to submit. She said he did is not enough.
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I would support a fund for that. This idea that you get to drip your seed with no consequences to you is absurd. You contribute to a life, you get to pay for it, that's how things work. If you are responsible for it then you need to pay. If you say that her word isn't enough then you can contribute some evidence that it wasn't you and we'll test for free. We would need an independent group that would destroy records, like we do with gun checks. We don't need Jerry Springer for that.

Your actions have consequences. Arguing that men shouldn't support life they created because you simply refuse to believe what they say is not a good argument, it isn't conservative, and is a childlike moronic statement where you get all the pleasure with none of the consequences. That's rubbish and you know it.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
Men should now be legally required to start paying child support the minute there’s a positive pregnancy test.

If you consider a cluster of cells a child, then you are legally obligated to support it, right?

If I was a Democrat congressman/woman in DC, first thing Monday I would introduce legislation calling for MANDATORY DNA identification to determine the paternity of every child born in the USA going forward.

Lets see who in DC REALLY wants to support children.
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Since they are so concerned about babies, I am surprised Trump ass-lickers have not proposed universal mandatory paid maternity leave, and universal government subsidized day care.
 
ExpressLane said:
My wife and I offered to adopt my niece who was born to an unwed mom. Her mother ALMOST went through with an abortion. And thankfully her mother changed her mind about the abortion and kept my niece. My wife and I have always financially helped with things like buying her mom a car to get to work in, child care , clothes, food, and education. Now my niece is 37 married to an engineer and has two beautiful kids. Abortion would have taken all three of their lives. And two of them have wombs.
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Lucky her. Most unwed moms-to-be are not as fortunate.
 
Damocles said:
That would only be right. You created a human, you should pay for at least half of its medical bills and support the life you created.
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I think the father should also pay for the mom to be off work for 2-6 weeks after delivery depending on natural vs C-section birth.
 
Cypress said:
Since they are so concerned about babies, I am surprised Trump ass-lickers have not proposed universal mandatory paid maternity leave, and universal government subsidized day care.
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I'm not. They only care about forcing women to give birth, not about what happens after that. Plus being forced to have a kid that she cannot provide for makes her an easy target to label "slut" and "irresponsible" and "welfare queen" and "whore" and so on.

TDkbrd1.jpg
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Lucky her. Most unwed moms-to-be are not as fortunate.
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True and she turned out to be a great mom. And that is why we have homes that assist young women. We do need more and instead of funding Planned Parenthood we need to fund those kinds of homes. And we sure as hell don't need to be fire bombing places that are trying to help women.
 
ExpressLane said:
I think the father should also pay for the mom to be off work for 2-6 weeks after delivery depending on natural vs C-section birth.
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Yes, the cost is borne by the folks responsible for creating the life, in this case her cost is in health, his is monetary, but both should pay.
 
ExpressLane said:
I think the father should also pay for the mom to be off work for 2-6 weeks after delivery depending on natural vs C-section birth.
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One parent needs to spend at least the first 3 years in a child's development but society won't allow it.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I'm not. They only care about forcing women to give birth, not about what happens after that. Plus being forced to have a kid that she cannot provide for makes her an easy target to label "slut" and "irresponsible" and "welfare queen" and "whore" and so on.

TDkbrd1.jpg
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Ha, yes I was being facetious!

Moral philosophers and ethicists will be discussing for decades to come, the morality of a policy of forced birth combined with the denial of mandatory paid maternity leave and adequately subsidized day care.
 
Hello ThatOwlWoman,

ThatOwlWoman said:
It's never that way, so no worries. But how many low-income women can afford court costs and lawyer's fees? She's already being forced to have a child she doesn't want/can't provide for. That's why I think DNA paternity testing should be mandatory in these cases. Let her petition the court to order it, but she doesn't have to pay for the expenses of legal action. It'll be on the taxpayers to cover the expense of legal action and lab costs. See how the forced-birthers like THAT.
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I'm fine with the State paying as long as forced DNA testing is court ordered and not universal.
 
Hello Damo,

Damocles said:
I would support a fund for that. This idea that you get to drip your seed with no consequences to you is absurd. You contribute to a life, you get to pay for it, that's how things work. If you are responsible for it then you need to pay. If you say that her word isn't enough then you can contribute some evidence that it wasn't you and we'll test for free. We would need an independent group that would destroy records, like we do with gun checks. We don't need Jerry Springer for that.

Your actions have consequences. Arguing that men shouldn't support life they created because you simply refuse to believe what they say is not a good argument, it isn't conservative, and is a childlike moronic statement where you get all the pleasure with none of the consequences. That's rubbish and you know it.
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The 'and you know it' argument is BS. Sounds like Trump.

I support holding men responsible for what they do. The problem is establishing who did what. That's where it gets tricky. Under the law, innocence must be assumed until guilt is proven. Men cannot be forced to submit to testing unless there is supporting evidence it is warranted. All she has to do is go to court and convince a judge there is reasonable cause to warrant a test. It cannot be she said he did. It has to be established there is convincing reason to believe he might be the father.

Otherwise, she could just pick out some guy and make a false claim. There has to be something tying them together. Some kind of evidence.
 
ExpressLane said:
True and she turned out to be a great mom. And that is why we have homes that assist young women. We do need more and instead of funding Planned Parenthood we need to fund those kinds of homes. And we sure as hell don't need to be fire bombing places that are trying to help women.
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You mean like fire bombing reproductive health care clinics and killing the staff? I agree.

BTW, only 2-3% of what PP does has to do with abortion. The rest is reproductive health care like contraceptives, education, testing for STDs, help with fertility issues, and family planning. This is all provided at little to no cost to clients. Guess what? Even a physician knows that contraceptives prevent abortions.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Damo,



The 'and you know it' argument is BS. Sounds like Trump.

I support holding men responsible for what they do. The problem is establishing who did what. That's where it gets tricky. Under the law, innocence must be assumed until guilt is proven. Men cannot be forced to submit to testing unless there is supporting evidence it is warranted. All she has to do is go to court and convince a judge there is reasonable cause to warrant a test. It cannot be she said he did. It has to be established there is convincing reason to believe he might be the father.

Otherwise, she could just pick out some guy and make a false claim. There has to be something tying them together. Some kind of evidence.
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This isn't criminal law, it is simple responsibility. Basically, we provide a means to find out without giving the government access to a database full of the DNA by creating a third party system I described. Pretending I didn't address your "concern" that someone may say you contributed DNA when you say you did not doesn't change that I did. It isn't even skin off your nose, a bit of spit and you're done. Making sure that folks that do contribute to creating children pay for those children is clearly something that is of interest to the state, and of society. Giving loser men who refuse to take responsibility a pass because someone "may lie" isn't good enough.
 
Cypress said:
Ha, yes I was being facetious!

Moral philosophers and ethicists will be discussing for decades to come, the morality of a policy of forced birth combined with the denial of mandatory paid maternity leave and adequately subsidized day care.
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Why do you think that RWers don't want those things? Because they believe that women's place is at home and not in the workplace competing with ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ men. Make working onerous enough, along with forced birth, and they'll get their way.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
You mean like fire bombing reproductive health care clinics and killing the staff? I agree.

BTW, only 2-3% of what PP does has to do with abortion. The rest is reproductive health care like contraceptives, education, testing for STDs, help with fertility issues, and family planning. This is all provided at little to no cost to clients. Guess what? Even a physician knows that contraceptives prevent abortions.
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However the money they make is almost 100% from abortion and pretending otherwise will, well, end PP if you don't start funding the contraceptives, etc. though some other means.
 
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