Sievierodonetsk falls to Russia

[Shoresy]

I hope we never have to count on conservatives if this country is invaded. Clearly their sentiment tends to be surrender and submit, rather than risk some of our infrastructure being destroyed.


Nobody has a gun to Ukrainians heads forcing them to fight. They have obviously made the calculation that their freedom and sovereignty are more important than some bridges and buildings, which can be rebuilt.

It's taken five months for Russia, which is purported to be a superpower, to capture a few key eastern Ukranian cities, at enormous cost to their military and reputation. That is not stunning military or political success

Our country is being invaded you stupid fuck with the full aid and comfort of the DNC.

 

[dukkha]

Should have listened to Rand Paul and insured that the $40 billion was actually going into the defense of Ukraine against the war criminal Putin instead of into the hands of Ukrainian oligarchs which in turn will be slushed back into the pockets of DNC lobbyists.

it's at least $56 billion on the books now.
Much more costs born under the DOD like satellite tracking, training, target acquisition and sharing

 

[dukkha]

Last January, while Biden was warning you of an impending invasion, you said it was laughable to think Putin would invade Ukraine.

Your predictions and prognostications are not very trustworthy.

how many times have we heard this before?
Libya is killing civilians. Syria just needs those rebels armed. Iraq is a fight for democracy
AfPak is winnable -it just needs more nation building..
So pardon me if US INTEL finally got something right

 

[dukkha]

Sitting on our hands, averting our eyes, and doing nothing while totalitarian states brutally invade weaker neighbors is not in the interest of the United States. That was the most important lesson of the 1930s.

OMG. There isnt any parallel to post WWI Europe.
Europe today is robust and NATO..this is an asinine talking point

 

[dukkha]

Fast forward to NATO being the intruder.

if you take a "defensive org" and put it into a hyper-aggressive posture, it's no longer a "defensive org"

 

[Bigdog]

his actions are restricted to Ukraine. It's laughable to think he could use his military elsewhere
especially at a NATO state

Actually, he has troops in many countries on several continents.

Did Pootie have a lawful or moral right to take Sevastopol in 2014, in your opinion?

 

[Cypress]

OMG. There isnt any parallel to post WWI Europe.
Europe today is robust and NATO..this is an asinine talking point

Fact: Putin's Russia has transformed into a militaristic totalitarian aggressor state, with imperialistic ambitions.

I don't trust your guarantees that Putin won't invade Georgia, Moldava, or the Baltics. You laughed at the thought of him invading Ukraine five months ago.

 

[ExpressLane]

We will see if Russia can keep it. So far they haven't proven they can do anything well except level civilian neighborhoods.

 

[Cypress]

We will see if Russia can keep it. So far they haven't proven they can do anything well except level civilian neighborhoods.

I wasn't in favor of the Iraq War, but at least the American and British armed forces were capable of achieving their military goals without turning Badgdad, Basra, Mosul into smouldering piles of ash.

 

[dukkha]

Fact: Putin's Russia has transformed into a militaristic totalitarian aggressor state, with imperialistic ambitions.

I don't trust your guarantees that Putin won't invade Georgia, Moldava, or the Baltics. You laughed at the thought of him invading Ukraine five months ago.

The Baltics are NATO -forget it.
Russia has Transnistria. why would it risk that outpost over Moldova?

 

[dukkha]

Actually, he has troops in many countries on several continents.

Did Pootie have a lawful or moral right to take Sevastopol in 2014, in your opinion?

that's the Wagner Group -they were in Libya before the invasion

Considering Crimea's long history with Russia, considering it's of utmost strategic importance, and considering western meddling, abd tghe referendum supporting annexation - it was necessary.
Moral rights dont apply to realpolitik

 

[moon]

if you take a "defensive org" and put it into a hyper-aggressive posture, it's no longer a "defensive org"

Right. ' Defensive advance ' is an oxymoron.

 

[ExpressLane]

that's the Wagner Group -they were in Libya before the invasion

Considering Crimea's long history with Russia, considering it's of utmost strategic importance, and considering western meddling, abd tghe referendum supporting annexation - it was necessary.
Moral rights dont apply to realpolitik

The Wagner Group's "Executioner" got killed by a Ukrainian sniper the other day. He was famous for executing captured prisoners.

 

[dukkha]

The Wagner Group's "Executioner" got killed by a Ukrainian sniper the other day. He was famous for executing captured prisoners.

He was in Libya too -backed Haftar (Bengazi faction)

 

[dukkha]

Right. ' Defensive advance ' is an oxymoron.

"defensive expansion" same thing

 

[dukkha]

I wasn't in favor of the Iraq War, but at least the American and British armed forces were capable of achieving their military goals without turning Badgdad, Basra, Mosul into smouldering piles of ash.

were they fighting against top of the line advanced NATO weapons?
There were no JAVELIN in Iraq either

 

[ExpressLane]

He was in Libya too -backed Haftar (Bengazi faction)

He is in the ground now.
(Hell faction)

 

[dukkha]

He is in the ground now.
(Hell faction)

the Wagner Group is the Russian version of Blackwater.
https://eurasiantimes.com/as-battle-hardened-in-ukraine-wagner-group-vs-blackwater/
Zelensky had urged foreign fighters to help defend his country against Russian troops. According to reports, military contractors were scouting for ex-soldiers to take on Putin’s “hired killers”, offering them each a handsome pay of $60,000 a month.

 

[Cypress]

The Baltics are NATO -forget it.
Russia has Transnistria. why would it risk that outpost over Moldova?

So on the one hand, you scream that NATO shouldn't have expanded to Eastern Europe.

On the other hand, you openly recognize that the way to prevent being invaded by Russia is to be in NATO.


So the moral of the story is that it was extremely wise for Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia to join NATO.

 

[dukkha]

So on the one hand, you scream that NATO shouldn't have expanded to Eastern Europe.

On the other hand, you openly recognize that the way to prevent being invaded by Russia is to be in NATO.


So the moral of the story is that it was extremely wise for Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia to join NATO.

Trying to equate the importance of the Baltics to Ukraine for Russia is laughable
Many times I've told you Ukraine is of unique importance to Russia -
it's geography alone shows a major NATO offensive by land come come thru Ukraine via Poland.
I'm not even getting into the cultural, linguistic, and economi ties Donbas has to Russia as opposed to the Baltics

What you always want to gloss over is Russia's repeated warnings that NATO expansion in situ
is a hostile act from a supposedly "defensive organization"
~~

Unfortunately Biden the Moron was in charge when Putin sent the repeated request for negotiating over redlines
Biden/Blinken/Nuland/Sullivan are all war pigs ( maybe not Blinken originally but he now serves the role)
and no doubt advised Biden to laugh it off. Biden had a chance to stop this war thru diplomatic negotiations
He chose to name call @Putin and directly call for regime change

Then he shows zero interest in negotiations, instead escalating to the max -
satiating everyone's war lust with the possible exception of Max Boot

It's a karmic bookend to Obama's call for a Russian reset when Biden was VP.
a tragedy that didnt have to happen