Paying Down Debt

Mina

Verified User
As many people know, the federal deficit shrank considerably in 2021. What may not be understood is just how aggressive that improvement was. In dollar terms, the decline of the deficit in 2021 was the second-most in any year in American history (just behind 2013). And this has resulted in a pretty substantial decline in federal debt as a share of GDP. Back in mid-2020, the amount of federal debt was about 136% the size of our GDP, whereas now it's down to around 125%.

That part of the story has been widely discussed. But what you hear less about is the decline in private debt. Household debt is about 80% of GDP right now, down from around 101% at the end of the Bush years. These days, household debt eats up about 9.3% of disposable personal income, versus about 13.2% at the end of the Bush years.

That's not just because the Bush years were catastrophic for American households (though they were). It's that there's been a massive deleveraging even relative to pre-Bush years. During the whole period from 1980 through 2011, the lowest the debt burden ever went for households was 10.25% of disposable income, versus 9.34% today.

Given the extreme media prejudice in favor of negativity, I think it's worth taking a step back to look at the areas where things are improving, because the media won't mention them. It's probably been a half century, at least, since debt was eating up people's budgets as little as it has been in the last few years.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP

Ironically, this may actually be playing into one of the current problems we're facing: high inflation.

For most products, people have flexibility to substitute cheaper options in the face of higher prices: like if meat prices are up, you can eat less meat, and if gas prices are up, you can car-pool, walk, bike, take public transit, drive slower, downsize your vehicle, etc. And those things, in turn, cut demand for the high-priced goods, lowering inflation. But that relies on price sensitivity.

Are you distressed enough that when ground beef rises to $4.80/lbs, you are willing to switch to chicken at $1.85/lbs, or beans at $0.80/lbs? If you're price insensitive, you'll just go on buying what you were buying before and griping about it, rather than making such moves. And if you're feeling less pressed by household debt than at any point in decades, it makes sense that your reaction to price increases would be more likely to consist of impotent complaining, rather than any moves that would put downward pressure on prices. Right now we have a nation of households that have less of their disposable income going to debt than at any point in maybe half a century, so it makes sense few are making the economizing moves that would lower demand for the higher-priced goods.
 
As many people know, the federal deficit shrank considerably in 2021. What may not be understood is just how aggressive that improvement was. In dollar terms, the decline of the deficit in 2021 was the second-most in any year in American history (just behind 2013). And this has resulted in a pretty substantial decline in federal debt as a share of GDP. Back in mid-2020, the amount of federal debt was about 136% the size of our GDP, whereas now it's down to around 125%.

That part of the story has been widely discussed. But what you hear less about is the decline in private debt. Household debt is about 80% of GDP right now, down from around 101% at the end of the Bush years. These days, household debt eats up about 9.3% of disposable personal income, versus about 13.2% at the end of the Bush years.

That's not just because the Bush years were catastrophic for American households (though they were). It's that there's been a massive deleveraging even relative to pre-Bush years. During the whole period from 1980 through 2011, the lowest the debt burden ever went for households was 10.25% of disposable income, versus 9.34% today.

Given the extreme media prejudice in favor of negativity, I think it's worth taking a step back to look at the areas where things are improving, because the media won't mention them. It's probably been a half century, at least, since debt was eating up people's budgets as little as it has been in the last few years.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP

Ironically, this may actually be playing into one of the current problems we're facing, with unusually high inflation:

For most products, people have flexibility to substitute cheaper options in the face of higher prices: like if meat prices are up, you can eat less meat, and if gas prices are up, you can car-pool, walk, bike, take public transit, drive slower, downsize your vehicle, etc. And those things, in turn, cut demand for the high-priced goods, lowering inflation. But that relies on price sensitivity.

Are you distressed enough that when ground beef rises to $4.80/lbs, you are willing to switch to chicken at $1.85/lbs, or beans at $0.80/lbs? If you're price insensitive, you'll just go on buying what you were buying before and griping about it, rather than making such moves. And if you're feeling less pressed by household debt than at any point in decades, it makes sense that your reaction to price increases would be more likely to consist of impotent complaining, rather than any moves that would put downward pressure on prices. Right now we have a nation of households that have less of their disposable income going to debt than at any point in maybe half a century, so it makes sense few are making the economizing moves that would lower demand for the higher-priced goods.

I think the decline in private debt might be explained thusly. Because interest rates were so low for such a long time, those people and entities with high revolving credit balances were able to pay them off more expediently? That's MY guess.
 
I think the decline in private debt might be explained thusly. Because interest rates were so low for such a long time, those people and entities with high revolving credit balances were able to pay them off more expediently? That's MY guess.

Yes, I expect that played a part. Age demographics changed, too -- like the Boomers who would have had high debt loads in the 80's and 90's, when they were buying houses, now have often paid off all that debt. And that deleveraging of society is probably a good thing.... but we would expect it to make people less price sensitive. If you don't have a lot of money left over after making your debt payments, you're going to be quick to economize in the face of price increases (do you REALLY need to eat so much red meat?). And that's going to put downward pressure on prices. But if you don't have that debt hovering over you, you may just go right on buying the higher-priced goods, removing that hypothetical ceiling on price increases.
 
may want to look at more current personal debt numbers as they are on the rise.
people are resorting to debt to put food on the table.
a terrible idea to be sure but thats what is happening now​.
 
may want to look at more current personal debt numbers as they are on the rise.

Which numbers do you have in mind? The numbers I cited, from the Federal Reserve, are the most recent household debt figures I could find. They also have some consumer debt figures, which likewise show consumer debt service payments are down quite a bit relative to recent highs (e.g., 6.733% of disposable personal income as of early in the Bush years, versus 5.49% now). My understanding is household debt figures are more comprehensive than consumer debt numbers, since consumer debt excludes mortgage payments, which is why I cited household debt.

The last data I found on bankruptcies, from April, showed those were creeping up slightly from prior months, but were still down significantly from a year prior. Specifically, 1st quarter 2022 had 17% fewer new bankruptcy filings than 1st quarter 2021, with consumer bankruptcies down 16% and commercial ones down 25%.

In 2019, the last year before the pandemic, there were 776,674 filings, versus just 434,540 in 2021 (and apparently an even lower rate in 1st quarter 2022).

https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2021/11/08/bankruptcy-filings-continue-fall-sharply

The dramatic decline really shows in this chart:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/bankruptcies
 
may want to look at more current personal debt numbers as they are on the rise.
people are resorting to debt to put food on the table.
a terrible idea to be sure but thats what is happening now​.

Here's another way to look at it:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=QwfT

fredgraph.png


That's real credit card debt over time. Adjusted for inflation, credit card debt hit an all-time high right before COVID hit, and is now down about 10.5% from there. That graph suggests that the consumer spending orgy of the pre-pandemic Trump years was largely financed by way of consumers running up credit card debt, but that consumers paid a bunch of that down during the early part of the pandemic (presumably using bailout money), and haven't come close to running that debt back up yet.

Note, that data is current through May of this year, and at the time real debt levels were still relatively low, and they actually were lower in May than they'd been in April.
 
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It’s why the republicans crashed the Economy in 2008


To get at the boomers increasing wealth


They love a boom and bust economy
 
may want to look at more current personal debt numbers as they are on the rise.
people are resorting to debt to put food on the table.
a terrible idea to be sure but thats what is happening now​.

Yet another way to see that data:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=QwfI


This compares consumer debt to average hourly earnings. Where it stands right now is fairly low compared to recent levels (e.g., lower than at any point between July 2016 and March 2020). So, while we might say "current personal debt numbers are on the rise," they'd need to rise a whole hell of a lot more to get people back to the point where their debts were as large, compared to their earnings, as they had been in the pre-pandemic Trump years.
 
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It’s why the republicans crashed the Economy in 2008


To get at the boomers increasing wealth


They love a boom and bust economy

From the perspective of the ultra-rich, boom-and-bust is probably a great thing. After all, there's a well known tendency of incomes to be a trailing indicators. Basically, after a recession ends, the early run-up in GDP/capita tends to show up almost entirely as capital gains and dividends for the ownership class, while incomes are fairly "sticky," since workers are still too nervous about the economy to demand what they are worth. But, over time, the culture changes and the peons start making demands, and that just gets more and more pronounced until the next recession scares them back into submission. So, from the perspective of those who are employers, it's good to have an occasional economic panic to keep the little people in line.
 
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When you have money you can make money in a receding economy and a booming one


It’s why capitalism needs REGULATIONS to keep it from eating its self by pushing all the assets in fewer and fewer hands



It’s why only EVIL people want all regulations gone and a democratic government kept weak



So they can have everything
 
As many people know, the federal deficit shrank considerably in 2021. What may not be understood is just how aggressive that improvement was. In dollar terms, the decline of the deficit in 2021 was the second-most in any year in American history (just behind 2013). And this has resulted in a pretty substantial decline in federal debt as a share of GDP. Back in mid-2020, the amount of federal debt was about 136% the size of our GDP, whereas now it's down to around 125%.

That part of the story has been widely discussed. But what you hear less about is the decline in private debt. Household debt is about 80% of GDP right now, down from around 101% at the end of the Bush years. These days, household debt eats up about 9.3% of disposable personal income, versus about 13.2% at the end of the Bush years.

That's not just because the Bush years were catastrophic for American households (though they were). It's that there's been a massive deleveraging even relative to pre-Bush years. During the whole period from 1980 through 2011, the lowest the debt burden ever went for households was 10.25% of disposable income, versus 9.34% today.

Given the extreme media prejudice in favor of negativity, I think it's worth taking a step back to look at the areas where things are improving, because the media won't mention them. It's probably been a half century, at least, since debt was eating up people's budgets as little as it has been in the last few years.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP

Ironically, this may actually be playing into one of the current problems we're facing: high inflation.

For most products, people have flexibility to substitute cheaper options in the face of higher prices: like if meat prices are up, you can eat less meat, and if gas prices are up, you can car-pool, walk, bike, take public transit, drive slower, downsize your vehicle, etc. And those things, in turn, cut demand for the high-priced goods, lowering inflation. But that relies on price sensitivity.

Are you distressed enough that when ground beef rises to $4.80/lbs, you are willing to switch to chicken at $1.85/lbs, or beans at $0.80/lbs? If you're price insensitive, you'll just go on buying what you were buying before and griping about it, rather than making such moves. And if you're feeling less pressed by household debt than at any point in decades, it makes sense that your reaction to price increases would be more likely to consist of impotent complaining, rather than any moves that would put downward pressure on prices. Right now we have a nation of households that have less of their disposable income going to debt than at any point in maybe half a century, so it makes sense few are making the economizing moves that would lower demand for the higher-priced goods.
The Federal deficit in 2019 was slightly less than $1 trillion dollars the federal deficit in 2021 was about $2.75 trillion dollars. One of the huge drivers of inflation is the government pumped a huge amount of money into the economy. With the production of products down and the supply chain not delivering as many products to buy the over supply of money meant too much money was chasing too few products. That causes inflation. Imagine if you had 100 people each wanting an apple and each person had $1 dollar. And imagine that there are only 100 apples to buy. An apple would be worth $1 and then everyone has $2 but there are still only 100 apples that can be bought. Apples would cost $2. That is what happens when you have too much money chasing too few products. Inflation. Had Biden got through his green new deal spending inflation would be even worse.
 
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Here's another way to look at it:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=QwfT

fredgraph.png


That's real credit card debt over time. Adjusted for inflation, credit card debt hit an all-time high right before COVID hit, and is now down about 10.5% from there. That graph suggests that the consumer spending orgy of the pre-pandemic Trump years was largely financed by way of consumers running up credit card debt, but that consumers paid a bunch of that down during the early part of the pandemic (presumably using bailout money), and haven't come close to running that debt back up yet.

Note, that data is current through May of this year, and at the time real debt levels were still relatively low, and they actually were lower in May than they'd been in April.


probably wont find it in Fed notes. all this shows is that people stopped buying in the pandemic.
 
Yet another way to see that data:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=QwfI


This compares consumer debt to average hourly earnings. Where it stands right now is fairly low compared to recent levels (e.g., lower than at any point between July 2016 and March 2020). So, while we might say "current personal debt numbers are on the rise," they'd need to rise a whole hell of a lot more to get people back to the point where their debts were as large, compared to their earnings, as they had been in the pre-pandemic Trump years.


this is closer, you can see the graph rising in the most current months.
 
The Federal deficit in 2019 was slightly less than $1 trillion dollars the federal deficit in 2021 was about $2.75 trillion dollars. One of the huge drivers of inflation is the government pumped a huge amount of money into the economy. With the production of products down and the supply chain not delivering as many products to buy the over supply of money meant too much money was chasing too few products. That causes inflation. Imagine if you had 100 people each wanting an apple and each person had $1 dollar. And imagine that there are only 100 apples to buy. An apple would be worth $1 and then everyone has $2 but there are still only 100 apples that can be bought. Apples would cost $2. That is what happens when you have too much money chasing too few products. Inflation. Had Biden got through his green new deal spending inflation would be even worse.

The federal deficit in FY2020 was about $3.131 trillion. That fell to $2.775 trillion in FY2021. As I mentioned, that's the second-largest single-year improvement in American history, just behind FY 2013.

Was inflation driven by that influx of money from the government? Perhaps in part. Tough to say how much was that, versus things like supply chain snags from COVID and an oil shock from Russia's attempted conquest of Ukraine. Currently the highest inflation rates are in Turkey, Argentina, Russia, Brazil, UK, Netherlands, and Spain, with the US coming next. That doesn't seem to have much correlation with the deficits they each ran.

For example, Turkey's inflation rate has been 73.5% over the last year. At the 2020 peak of deficit spending, their deficit was 4.22% of GDP (compared to over 15% for us). Canada, meanwhile, ran a deficit of 11.36% of GDP, at that point, and has inflation of just 6.8%. Japan ran 8.9% deficit, yet has totally normal inflation right now, of just 2.5%.

Or how about Norway? They ran a very small deficit in 2020 (just 2.61% of GDP) and a large SURPLUS in 2021 (9.09% of GDP), yet they just notched their highest inflation rate in 33 years, at 5.7%. Fiscal austerity doesn't seem to have spared them the inflation sweeping the globe.

There just isn't the clear pattern we'd expect to see if it were mostly about government spending. Instead, it's more like the pattern we'd expect to see if it were mostly about consumption habits during a supply chain snag (e.g., places that drive more and eat more meat get hit harder when gas prices and meat prices rise).

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate
https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-deficit.htm
 
probably wont find it in Fed notes. all this shows is that people stopped buying in the pandemic.

We're still in the pandemic, and people are still buying, as they did throughout 2021 (which, recall, had the strongest economic growth in nearly 40 years).
 
this is closer, you can see the graph rising in the most current months.

Yes, it's rising a bit recently, but how long would it have to rise at that pace just to get us back to the pre-pandemic levels we hit under Trump? Back then, the economy was being fueled by record levels of consumer debt.
 
Yes, it's rising a bit recently, but how long would it have to rise at that pace just to get us back to the pre-pandemic levels we hit under Trump? Back then, the economy was being fueled by record levels of consumer debt.

its rising as interest rates are rising fast. so not that long. and the hurt is going to be that much worse as the job market starts collapsing.

people usually cut back on revolving credit in times like this. only bad can come of it.
 
its rising as interest rates are rising fast. so not that long. and the hurt is going to be that much worse as the job market starts collapsing.

people usually cut back on revolving credit in times like this. only bad can come of it.

The Federal Reserve’s monthly credit report found that revolving credit, which mostly includes credit card balances, jumped nearly 20% in April from the previous month to $1.103 trillion, breaking the pre-pandemic record of $1.1 trillion.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/09/cre...after-stimulus-checks-helped-reduce-debt.html

WOW
 
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