Punishing families who can't afford health care to begin with just doesn't make sense

SmarterThanYou said:
k, lets try this again. it's not the insurance that is shitty, because it's really not bad insurance. the problem is actually dealing with the health issues. most of the meds are on the 20/40 copay, but there are some that insurance won't cover (and this gov plan won't either) because of the type of med, so I have to pay full price for that. To add insult to injury on it all, the surgery that was performed didn't do as well as was hoped, so now we're trying to get on the transplant list. more appointments, more surgeries, and more meds. do you not see where this is going?
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So you're off of insurance to help pay for your wife's insurance?

Do they provide special subsidies for married couples?
 
[ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=healthcare+subsidies+wage+earners+below+60K&btnG=Google+Search"]403 Forbidden[/ame]

Google turned up nothing. I guess i should try Bing
 
I love how this thread, with Obama's own words as the title, is rated as low as possible.
This board is ridiculous. Some douche calls me names for posting Obama's words. How about that? Ironic? Not really
 
tinfoil said:
I love how this thread, with Obama's own words as the title, is rated as low as possible.
This board is ridiculous. Some douche calls me names for posting Obama's words. How about that? Ironic? Not really
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Don't pay any attention to them. They can't help it.
 
TheHappyHippo said:
Folks making below 60k a year also get generous subsidies that make them able to afford healthcare.
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uh, no.....the only ones getting a subsidy are 30 million of the 47 million who are currently uninsured....the rest of us have to pay for our own.....have you actually read anything about the act?......
 
SmarterThanYou said:
or if your spouse has a serious heart condition, requires open heart surgery, then post op meds cost you about 1200 a month.
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You've just explained the reason why REAL heathcare reform in critically needed in the US.

You've just defined those who stand against it as the morons that they are.
 
I'm reserving judgment on the Baucus bill until I have a chance to read it, but for now I'm quite skeptical of it. Requiring people to buy insurance and giving poor folks subsidies sounds like a great fucking deal for the insurance companies when there is no public option to compete with the private insurers. There may be tradeoffs that make the deal palatable (no refusing insurance for pre-existing conditions, no recissions) but I'm not so sure I can support the Baucus bill.
 
blackascoal said:
You've just explained the reason why REAL heathcare reform in critically needed in the US.

You've just defined those who stand against it as the morons that they are.
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We do need real health care reform in this country, but the Democrats are interested in a government run program which is simply unacceptable to most Americans. On one hand I'd love to see you Democrats pass this shit and force it on us, because you will get devastated in the 2010 elections, but I'm afraid we'd get locked into a shitty program, just like we did with social security.
 
TurdFerguson said:
I'm reserving judgment on the Baucus bill until I have a chance to read it, but for now I'm quite skeptical of it. Requiring people to buy insurance and giving poor folks subsidies sounds like a great fucking deal for the insurance companies when there is no public option to compete with the private insurers. There may be tradeoffs that make the deal palatable (no refusing insurance for pre-existing conditions, no recissions) but I'm not so sure I can support the Baucus bill.
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As long as there is no public option, thus no competition for the insurance companies, all you'll get is lipstick on a pig .. that will only become a fatter pig.

Perhaps this will make it more clear to you good brother ..

Report: Senator Max Baucus Received More Campaign Money from Health and Insurance Industry Interests than Any Other Member of Congress.

Montana Senator Max Baucus, the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, is the Senate’s point man on healthcare reform. A new article in the Montana Standard finds that Senator Baucus has received more campaign money from health and insurance industry interests than any other member of Congress. The article says, “In the past six years, nearly one-fourth of every dime raised by Baucus and his political-action committee has come from groups and individuals associated with drug companies, insurers, hospitals, medical-supply firms, health-service companies and other health professionals.”

video at link ..
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/16/report_senator_max_baucus_received_more

.. consider this as you read the bill.

But there is an even deeper question .. why would Obama choose such a man to lead this effort?
 
Government is not a provider of legitimate competition. It cannot be. It automatically has regulatory capture and access to tax money to win any market battles.

And remember:

Universal coverage + rationing = universal denial.
 
blackascoal said:
As long as there is no public option, thus no competition for the insurance companies, all you'll get is lipstick on a pig .. that will only become a fatter pig.

Perhaps this will make it more clear to you good brother ..

Report: Senator Max Baucus Received More Campaign Money from Health and Insurance Industry Interests than Any Other Member of Congress.

Montana Senator Max Baucus, the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, is the Senate’s point man on healthcare reform. A new article in the Montana Standard finds that Senator Baucus has received more campaign money from health and insurance industry interests than any other member of Congress. The article says, “In the past six years, nearly one-fourth of every dime raised by Baucus and his political-action committee has come from groups and individuals associated with drug companies, insurers, hospitals, medical-supply firms, health-service companies and other health professionals.”

video at link ..
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/16/report_senator_max_baucus_received_more

.. consider this as you read the bill.

But there is an even deeper question .. why would Obama choose such a man to lead this effort?
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Baucus wasn't chosen by Obama to do anything. According to the Senate rules the bill had to go through the Finance Committee which Baucus chairs as a matter of seniority. The problem is with Reid, who isn't exactly a progressive and isn't one to do end runs around parliamentary procedure unless it is something that he really wants.

And while it may look like a stupid decision to even let Baucus get his hands on the bill in the first place, a year ago Baucus actually proposed a bill that included a public option. He's flipped on all sorts of things he is on record of supporting.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Government is not a provider of legitimate competition. It cannot be. It automatically has regulatory capture and access to tax money to win any market battles.

And remember:

Universal coverage + rationing = universal denial.
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While you engage in hyperbole the country is sinking. Healthcare reform is not an option if this country is to compete in the world TODAY.

Suggesting that America can't accomplish what the entire rest of the industrialized planet has had for years is simply mindboggling. We can not only accomplish what they have, we could make it better.

All you're defending is insurance companies, not this country.
 
blackascoal said:
As long as there is no public option, thus no competition for the insurance companies, all you'll get is lipstick on a pig .. that will only become a fatter pig.

Perhaps this will make it more clear to you good brother ..

Report: Senator Max Baucus Received More Campaign Money from Health and Insurance Industry Interests than Any Other Member of Congress.

Montana Senator Max Baucus, the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, is the Senate’s point man on healthcare reform. A new article in the Montana Standard finds that Senator Baucus has received more campaign money from health and insurance industry interests than any other member of Congress. The article says, “In the past six years, nearly one-fourth of every dime raised by Baucus and his political-action committee has come from groups and individuals associated with drug companies, insurers, hospitals, medical-supply firms, health-service companies and other health professionals.”

video at link ..
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/16/report_senator_max_baucus_received_more

.. consider this as you read the bill.

But there is an even deeper question .. why would Obama choose such a man to lead this effort?
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And I'd add that not only has Baucus received shitloads from insurers, drug companies and the like, but a look at the metadata on the bill released reveals that the bill was primarily authored by Liz Fowler, a senior staffer of his the focuses on health policy. Prior to working with Baucus on this bill, Fowler served as Vice President for Public Policy and External Affairs at WellPoint, Inc. This WellPoint:

http://www.wellpoint.com/business/default.asp
 
SmarterThanYou said:
k, lets try this again. it's not the insurance that is shitty, because it's really not bad insurance. the problem is actually dealing with the health issues. most of the meds are on the 20/40 copay, but there are some that insurance won't cover (and this gov plan won't either) because of the type of med, so I have to pay full price for that. To add insult to injury on it all, the surgery that was performed didn't do as well as was hoped, so now we're trying to get on the transplant list. more appointments, more surgeries, and more meds. do you not see where this is going?
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Too bad you don't live in Norway, France, Denmark, or most any other developed democratic country, because there's virtually no chance that medical bills would drive you into bankruptcy or destitution.
 
Cypress said:
Too bad you don't live in Norway, France, Denmark, or most any other developed democratic country, because there's virtually no chance that medical bills would drive you into bankruptcy or destitution.
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And all we ask in return is that people attend yearly assessment centres after the age of 40 to justify their existence in front of our new, improved, celebrity death panels.
 
charver said:
And all we ask in return is that people attend yearly assessment centres after the age of 40 to justify their existence in front of our new, improved, celebrity death panels.
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I hear that Simon fellow is quite tough. He slates everyone for death.
 
TurdFerguson said:
Baucus wasn't chosen by Obama to do anything. According to the Senate rules the bill had to go through the Finance Committee which Baucus chairs as a matter of seniority. The problem is with Reid, who isn't exactly a progressive and isn't one to do end runs around parliamentary procedure unless it is something that he really wants.

And while it may look like a stupid decision to even let Baucus get his hands on the bill in the first place, a year ago Baucus actually proposed a bill that included a public option. He's flipped on all sorts of things he is on record of supporting.
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I stand corrected, you're right about Obama not choosing Baucus .. and of course you're correct about Reid.

Baucus is the democratic equivilent of Phil Gramm.
 
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