Russians; ' All war goals must be met '

martin said:
Right, their hand has been out for more than two years holding air.
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i gave you the details. you come back with some inane comment I cant understand.
I'm not going to explain what I already copied I suggest you read it more carefully
and bear in mind this is just the formal status, while we are treating Ukraine as territorial integrity
is akin to already being NATO membership
 
moon said:
Do you believe that the US will launch a nuclear war against Russia if Russia uses tactical nukes in Ukraine ?
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I think the US would respond with tactical nukes: starting by dropping several bunker-busting nukes on Putin's location..... and I think Putin knows that, which is why he has kept his nukes holstered even as his military has been getting humiliated in the field.
 
Mina said:
Like the Nazis before them, they will lose. It won't be a matter of existence for the nation, which will go on just fine after their defeat, but it may be the end for the fascist thug who led them into this blunder. With some luck, he'll wind up like his spiritual predecessor, as a charred corpse lying outside the bunker where he's been cowering.
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The Nazis didn't have the world's largest nuclear arsenal. You speak a load of sugared Zelenskyism.
 
martin said:
Well, he may. But so far he's had the sense not to put his weapons on them and nurses his homesickness in private.
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who cares what's in his head or not.
Ukraine is much much different for Russia then fantasy foreign wars against NATO states
 
dukkha said:
Russia is not "Soviet" this is what happens because of Russiaphobia
Americans still think of Russia as the USSR- much easier to hate that way
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For a while, Russia moved away from the Soviet way of doing things. It gave up satellite states and even had a few peaceful changes of power. But Putin's an old KGB guy, and is trying to reinstate the Soviet Union, in fact if not in name. He's created one-party rule, under the effective dictatorial control of a single person, and he's been using military aggression to try to rebuild Russia's control over Eastern Europe.

That said, there are differences, as well. For example, most of the Soviet leaders were remarkably effective, helping to take Russia from being a weak and backwards nation of serfs to being a relatively prosperous superpower (and the first nation to send someone to space) in just a couple generations. They turned it into one of the world's great powers, and an inspiration to countless other nations that tried to follow them into communism. Putin, by comparison, is a total incompetent, who took a nation with vast oil wealth and turned into to an economic backwater, political pariah, and laughing-stock military, almost totally devoid of allies.
 
Mina said:
For a while, Russia moved away from the Soviet way of doing things. It gave up satellite states and even had a few peaceful changes of power. But Putin's an old KGB guy, and is trying to reinstate the Soviet Union, in fact if not in name. He's created one-party rule, under the effective dictatorial control of a single person, and he's been using military aggression to try to rebuild Russia's control over Eastern Europe.

That said, there are differences, as well. For example, most of the Soviet leaders were remarkably effective, helping to take Russia from being a weak and backwards nation of serfs to being a relatively prosperous superpower (and the first nation to send someone to space) in just a couple generations. They turned it into one of the world's great powers, and an inspiration to countless other nations that tried to follow them into communism. Putin, by comparison, is a total incompetent, who took a nation with vast oil wealth and turned into to an economic backwater, political pariah, and laughing-stock military, almost totally devoid of allies.
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GTFOutta here with this noise, you got no fucking idea what is happening with Russian sanctions pre war that hit their economy. Dont post this Putin-phobia to me
 
moon said:
You don't. I don't. There are nuts here that do.
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i thought about tactical nukes. the problem is the Uk regulars embed in the cities.
Thats a step too far for Putin because China would have to condemn it..
Their artillery is meatgrinding down Uk in Donbas
 
moon said:
You just don't get it , do you. The goal is restored equilibrium . You have the political grasp of Caligula.
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that's not our goal. our goal is "victory" over Russia and "degrade: it's military.
We dont want equilibrium -we didnt want a neutral Uk even before the war
 
dukkha said:
i thought about tactical nukes. the problem is the Uk regulars embed in the cities.
Thats a step too far for Putin because China would have to condemn it..
Their artillery is meatgrinding down Uk in Donbas
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True- but it's only a step too far while Russia is succeeding.
 
dukkha said:
that's not our goal. our goal is "victory" over Russia and "degrade: it's military.
We dont want equilibrium -we didnt want a neutral Uk even before the war
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That's right. ' Equilibrium ' is the goal of the sane.
 
dukkha said:
GTFOutta here with this noise, you got no fucking idea what is happening with Russian sanctions pre war that hit their economy. Dont post this Putin-phobia to me
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I didn't say a word about sanctions. I'm talking about his military aggression and attempt to seize territory from other countries. Try to focus. Your Putin apologetics are weak.
 
moon said:
The goal is restored equilibrium
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No, it definitely isn't. If Ukraine had seized Russian territory by military force, and Russia was retaking it, that would be about restoring equilibrium. This is about disrupting equilibrium -- an attempt to grow Russia and shrink Ukraine.

You have the political grasp of Caligula.
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Caligula is a good analogy for Putin. Caligula fancied himself a military genius but was known for his military blunders. Eventually, his own guards assassinated him to free the nation from such incompetence and corruption. Hopefully history repeats itself in Russia. I'd imagine Putin must be getting pretty paranoid, right now -- even people in the inner circle see that it would be better if he stopped breathing sometime soon.
 
Mina said:
I didn't say a word about sanctions. I'm talking about his military aggression and attempt to seize territory from other countries. Try to focus. Your Putin apologetics are weak.
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Putin apologetics are weak by definition.
 
Mina said:
No, it definitely isn't. If Ukraine had seized Russian territory by military force, and Russia was retaking it, that would be about restoring equilibrium. This is about disrupting equilibrium -- an attempt to grow Russia and shrink Ukraine.
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Ukraine now has little to do with it. It's just a proxy war theater.
 
moon said:
Ukraine now has little to do with it.
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Ukraine has EVERYTHING to with it. It's Ukrainian territory that Putin is trying to steal. It's Ukrainian civilians he's mass murdering. It's in Ukraine that his thugs are committing war crimes. It's Ukrainians who are fighting back to defend their nation. And it's in Ukraine that Russia boys are bleeding out because they made the mistake of following an incompetent fascist's orders.

The US didn't want a proxy war. It has repeatedly tried to reset the Russian relationship into something healthier. And Western Europe was even more willing to bend over backwards to make nice with Russia, since they like cheap natural gas.

But Putin doesn't want a reset. He doesn't want peaceful and mutually profitable trade. He wants to build an empire by military force. And his blundering efforts at that are why he's found himself getting his ass kicked by Ukraine.
 
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