Ukraine needs to face reality to end conflict, talk to Putin: Zelenskyy

dukkha said:
Putins ultimate need is as strategic buffer from NATO-especially now that Ukraine has advanced NATO weapons
He wants "deNazification" -some of that is true, some just rhetoric
He would like a land corridor to Crimea as well,and has that

Ukraine want to to rebuild, but escalates the war.. i dont see anything close to a cease fire yet
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I am just going to accept your admission that Putin doesn't give a damn about the welfare of the Russian-speaking citizens of Donbas.

Ukraine has a fundamental right to fight for their sovereign territory.

Your insistence that they submit and surrender large and important parts of their country is a reflection of the soft American background that constitutes your cultural and historical milieu. Americans as a nation hasn't really been tested since the civil war.

The people of the East Slavic republics are hardened by history and cultural traditions. They are going to be tenacious in defending their home and hearth. In my experience, Slavic women are generally even tougher than the MAGA fat asses who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6.
 
dukkha said:
Putin hasnt been offered anything. Next is longer range rockets to hit Russia proper ( see previous page) -
Thats a Russian "redline" -hitting Russia proper
Putin has every incentive to take as much as he can get
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Putin has not even offered to have a ceasefire, which means he is refusing to even end the war, no matter what he gets. Putin has not figured out a way to end this war, and stay in power, so the war is not going to end. Ukraine has no say in this.
 
moon said:
" Just a bit of reality " ??
Walt, the Russians now occupy about one-fifth of all of Ukraine and they're advancing towards Odessa- the taking of which would asphyxiate the Zelenskies if they could manage it.
As Odessa is key- why do you continue to maintain that it's all over for Russia ? You sound like the potty-mouthed pseudo-Ukrainian, Cypress.
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You are acknowledging the land occupied is part of Ukraine? Are you in a safe place from Putin, because saying "the Russians now occupy about one-fifth of all of Ukraine" can get you killed?

Anyway, Putin keeps having campaigns that start well, then slowly grind to a halt, and finally start to get reversed. The attack on Odessa recently went through that.

Putin will keep the war going until he decides to end the war. There is nothing anyone else can do about it.
 
dukkha said:
WTF do you think has been happening?
If you want US /NATO troops in Ukraine, that's insane
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That's exactly what I want. I was sent to Vietnam for no sane reason at all.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were absurd.
But we're afraid to keep peace in civilized Europe?

We're a fucking joke right now.
 
moon said:
How about they show some moral fiber and support Palestine ? It's been 74 years, not 3 months.
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I hate to be a racist given that half the medical team that keeps me alive is middle eastern, but just the same,
fuck the towelheads. They knocked down our tallest buildings. Now they can all rot in hell.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I hate to be a racist given that half the medical team that keeps me alive is middle eastern, but just the same,
fuck the towelheads. They knocked down our tallest buildings. Now they can all rot in hell.
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You deserve to be unplugged.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
That's exactly what I want. I was sent to Vietnam for no sane reason at all.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were absurd.
But we're afraid to keep peace in civilized Europe?

We're a fucking joke right now.
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Europe has NATO and the EU.
more then enough weapons and aid. . Europe doesnt help with China in the Pacific
Let Europe deal with their own war -we need to focus on China
 
Walt said:
Putin has not even offered to have a ceasefire, which means he is refusing to even end the war, no matter what he gets. Putin has not figured out a way to end this war, and stay in power, so the war is not going to end. Ukraine has no say in this.
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you are mixing "staying in power" with the war.
Putin is consolidating his gains in the east/south. But it's Ukraine that is getting the devestation.
If Ukraine wants a cease fire " talking to Putin" is what they need to do.
Instead we escalate the war constantly,and they keep getting pulverized
 
dukkha said:
Europe has NATO and the EU.
more then enough weapons and aid. . Europe doesnt help with China in the Pacific
Let Europe deal with their own war -we need to focus on China
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China is our biggest trade partner. We're not at war with them. They have high IQs, good looking broads, and I love Chinese food.
Why are you worried about China?
 
dukkha said:
you are mixing "staying in power" with the war.
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No, Putin is. Putin is thinking of Putin, and this war is solely the decision of Putin. Putin will continue this war for as long as peace is worse for Putin. Right now, peace would be a disaster for Putin, so we will have more war. He will refuse to take the offramps.

dukkha said:
If Ukraine wants a cease fire " talking to Putin" is what they need to do.
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Putin refuses to meet with them, and sends diplomats who have no power to talk instead. This war will continue until Putin takes one of the offramps.
 
Walt said:
No, Putin is. Putin is thinking of Putin, and this war is solely the decision of Putin. Putin will continue this war for as long as peace is worse for Putin. Right now, peace would be a disaster for Putin, so we will have more war. He will refuse to take the offramps.
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peace? there needs to be agreement for a cease fire first.
Putin just took Lyman - no reason for him for talks
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russi...ext-stage-of-ukraine-invasion-uk-intelligence
"Lyman is strategically important because it is the site of a major railway junction, and also gives access to important rail and road bridges over the Siverskyy Donets River," the memo continued.
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Putin is making gains, Zelensky is back and forth on "needs to be talks with Putin"

Putin refuses to meet with them, and sends diplomats who have no power to talk instead. This war will continue until Putin takes one of the offramps.
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what "offramps"?
Biden keeps escalating the weapons now it's long range multiple missile launchers into Russia
you want a ceasefire, then stop pouring gasoline on the existing war
 
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