Unaware that you are a Putin supporter?

[fortify]

Because chances are, you are. In what way do you ask? Because I could almost guarantee that all of you are anti Nazi. And probably most Ukrainians are pro-Nazi to some degree. So if you are against them, you must be pro-Putin.

Now, with that out of the way, I will tell you why so many Ukrainians are pro-Nazi. Because in the past, the Russian Bolsheviks basically murdered millions of Ukrainians. Mostly in what was called the Holodomor. How many millions who either died from starvation, secondary causes from famine or were outright executed can't be known. I have heard of death tolls that ranged anywhere from around 1.5 million to around 20 million. An Italian Council named Sergio Gradenigo wrote in a letter in 1933 that the number of dead could be 10 or 15 million. Somebody named Nestor Gorodovenko in 1934 is said to have said privately that the number of dead was around 18 million.

To the Ukrainians, the Nazi forces weren't invaders. They were saviours. And as far as being "invaders" to begin with, it is known that the only reason why the Nazis invaded Russia to begin with was because Hitler found out that the Russians were getting ready to attack Germany. One historian I was reading about said that the Nazis beat the Russians to the punch by only one day. That could be why, at first, the Germans really cleaned the Russians clocks. Because Russian forces were arrayed for attack. Not defense. Isn't a bitch when you believe history as written by the victors? And as Samuel Clemens once said, "It isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just isn't so."

But getting back to the Ukrainians, they should consider that they weren't the only victims of the Bolsheviks. It is said that in total, Russian communists are said to have been responsible for the untimely deaths of 80 to 100 million people! I will also show you a meme of a Russian Nobel Laureate named Alexandyr Solzhenitsyn. Now sometimes winning the Nobel Peace Prize is nothing more than a popularity contest. But Alexandyr Solzhenitsyn was an actual intellectual. He was a Russian historian and novelist. This is what he had to say.

 

[Flash]

Because chances are, you are. In what way do you ask? Because I could almost guarantee that all of you are anti Nazi. And probably most Ukrainians are pro-Nazi to some degree. So if you are against them, you must be pro-Putin.

Now, with that out of the way, I will tell you why so many Ukrainians are pro-Nazi. Because in the past, the Russian Bolsheviks basically murdered millions of Ukrainians. Mostly in what was called the Holodomor. How many millions who either died from starvation, secondary causes from famine or were outright executed can't be known. I have heard of death tolls that ranged anywhere from around 1.5 million to around 20 million. An Italian Council named Sergio Gradenigo wrote in a letter in 1933 that the number of dead could be 10 or 15 million. Somebody named Nestor Gorodovenko in 1934 is said to have said privately that the number of dead was around 18 million.

To the Ukrainians, the Nazi forces weren't invaders. They were saviours. And as far as being "invaders" to begin with, it is known that the only reason why the Nazis invaded Russia to begin with was because Hitler found out that the Russians were getting ready to attack Germany. One historian I was reading about said that the Nazis beat the Russians to the punch by only one day. That could be why, at first, the Germans really cleaned the Russians clocks. Because Russian forces were arrayed for attack. Not defense. Isn't a bitch when you believe history as written by the victors? And as Samuel Clemens once said, "It isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just isn't so."

But getting back to the Ukrainians, they should consider that they weren't the only victims of the Bolsheviks. It is said that in total, Russian communists are said to have been responsible for the untimely deaths of 80 to 100 million people! I will also show you a meme of a Russian Nobel Laureate named Alexandyr Solzhenitsyn. Now sometimes winning the Nobel Peace Prize is nothing more than a popularity contest. But Alexandyr Solzhenitsyn was an actual intellectual. He was a Russian historian and novelist. This is what he had to say.

View attachment 22425

No, most of us think Putin is a murderous tyrant. You just also be pro-Ukranian since you are pro-Nazi.

 

[fortify]

No, most of us think Putin is a murderous tyrant. You just also be pro-Ukranian since you are pro-Nazi.

I think Putin sucks too. Regardless of how many of the Ukrainians feel about Hitler. Slaughtering all those civilians is pure evil! But as I said, it is basically just history repeating itself. It just surprises me that with how the world is today that there can be anybody could be against Putin attacking a country with so many Nazi sympathizers in it. (As I said, sympathizers for good reason)

 

[Celticguy]

NATO forced Putin into this needless conflict condemning these Ukrainian citizens to die for no more reason than to be an irritant to Putin.

 

[anatta]

During WWII, Ukrainian nationalists saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression -true
its complex as is everything in Ukraine relations

the 20th-Century History Behind Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...behind-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-180979672/

When Germany invaded in 1941, some Ukrainians, especially those in western Ukraine, saw them as liberators, says Oxana Shevel, a political scientist at Tufts University. The Ukrainians didn’t particularly want to live under the Germans so much as escape the Soviets, adds Shevel, who is the president of the nonprofit educational organization American Association for Ukrainian Studies.

“The broader objective was to establish an independent state, but in the process, [Ukrainians] also engaged in participation in the Holocaust,” she says.

 

[Flash]

I think Putin sucks too. Regardless of how many of the Ukrainians feel about Hitler. Slaughtering all those civilians is pure evil! But as I said, it is basically just history repeating itself. It just surprises me that with how the world is today that there can be anybody could be against Putin attacking a country with so many Nazi sympathizers in it. (As I said, sympathizers for good reason)

We don't believe in killing people for their political beliefs. Plus, we have no evidence of "so many Nazi sympathizers."

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Because chances are, you are. In what way do you ask? Because I could almost guarantee that all of you are anti Nazi. And probably most Ukrainians are pro-Nazi to some degree. So if you are against them, you must be pro-Putin.

Now, with that out of the way, I will tell you why so many Ukrainians are pro-Nazi. Because in the past, the Russian Bolsheviks basically murdered millions of Ukrainians. Mostly in what was called the Holodomor. How many millions who either died from starvation, secondary causes from famine or were outright executed can't be known. I have heard of death tolls that ranged anywhere from around 1.5 million to around 20 million. An Italian Council named Sergio Gradenigo wrote in a letter in 1933 that the number of dead could be 10 or 15 million. Somebody named Nestor Gorodovenko in 1934 is said to have said privately that the number of dead was around 18 million.

To the Ukrainians, the Nazi forces weren't invaders. They were saviours. And as far as being "invaders" to begin with, it is known that the only reason why the Nazis invaded Russia to begin with was because Hitler found out that the Russians were getting ready to attack Germany. One historian I was reading about said that the Nazis beat the Russians to the punch by only one day. That could be why, at first, the Germans really cleaned the Russians clocks. Because Russian forces were arrayed for attack. Not defense. Isn't a bitch when you believe history as written by the victors? And as Samuel Clemens once said, "It isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just isn't so."

But getting back to the Ukrainians, they should consider that they weren't the only victims of the Bolsheviks. It is said that in total, Russian communists are said to have been responsible for the untimely deaths of 80 to 100 million people! I will also show you a meme of a Russian Nobel Laureate named Alexandyr Solzhenitsyn. Now sometimes winning the Nobel Peace Prize is nothing more than a popularity contest. But Alexandyr Solzhenitsyn was an actual intellectual. He was a Russian historian and novelist. This is what he had to say.

View attachment 22425

welcome to the board, Vlad....

 

[Walt]

Because I could almost guarantee that all of you are anti Nazi. And probably most Ukrainians are pro-Nazi to some degree. So if you are against them, you must be pro-Putin.

Putin was the KGB handler for Neo-Nazis in Germany. But beyond that, there is the question of what it means to be Anti-Nazi. Is being Anti-Nazi invading a whole country because you claim that someone in that country might be a Neo-Nazi? Or is it being for free speech even for Neo-Nazis?

 

[Walt]

During WWII, Ukrainian nationalists saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression -true

There were millions of Ukrainians and Russians who saw the Nazis as liberators, and joined them. There were tens of millions of Ukrainians and Russians who sacrificed everything to fight the Nazis. I think it is safe to say that Zelenskyy's family was extremely anti-Nazi, for obvious reasons.

There were even American's who were pro-Nazi, like trump's father.

 

[Cypress]

There were also Nazi collaborators in Vichy France, Austria, Norway, Denmark.

Vichy France was the most notorious example of Nazi collaboration in WW2. The fact is the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians opposed the Nazi invasion, and fought in the Red Army to drive the Nazis out. You would be hard pressed to name many nations which suffered more from Nazi occupation than Ukraine.

 

[Cypress]

During WWII, Ukrainian nationalists saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression -true
its complex as is everything in Ukraine relations

the 20th-Century History Behind Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...behind-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-180979672/

When Germany invaded in 1941, some Ukrainians, especially those in western Ukraine, saw them as liberators, says Oxana Shevel, a political scientist at Tufts University. The Ukrainians didn’t particularly want to live under the Germans so much as escape the Soviets, adds Shevel, who is the president of the nonprofit educational organization American Association for Ukrainian Studies.

“The broader objective was to establish an independent state, but in the process, [Ukrainians] also engaged in participation in the Holocaust,” she says.

Vichy France was the most notorious example of collaboration with Nazi Germany, bar none. The French authoritarian nationalist righwing to this day remains a major force in French politics. Marie Le Pen won 40 percent of the national vote last week.

Should France be invaded?

 

[fortify]

NATO forced Putin into this needless conflict condemning these Ukrainian citizens to die for no more reason than to be an irritant to Putin.

Are you a government agent paid to spread disinformation and help keep the populace stupid? What lead to the conflict was that the majority of the Ukrainian people wanted closer economic ties to Europe. Not Russia and the East. But their pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych wanted the Ukraine to have closer economic ties to Russia. In November 2013, an uprising started in the Ukraine called the Euromaden. This led to what was called the Revolution of Dignity or Maidan Revolution in February 2014. That in turn led to the ousting of the pro-Russian president. After that, Putin finding a reason to invade the Ukraine was only a matter of time. It had nothing to do with NATO. What it had to do with was that the Ukraine had much that Russia wanted. For instance, the Ukraine is the largest producer of food in Europe.

 

[fortify]

As for the first sentence, put on a Nazi uniform and go walking down any street of any city in the U.S. You could very well end up dead. Or at least beaten up. So, that ends that statement. As for many of the Ukrainians admiring Hitler, I saw some TV show once that went into it. Apparently having a picture of Hitler in the Ukraine is fairly common. Maybe not as common as people in Pakistan who had pictures of Osama bin Laden, but fairly common none the less. If you want to know more, there are many websites on the subject. Here is one.

https://www.thepostil.com/the-nazis-of-ukraine/

 

[fortify]

Putin was the KGB handler for Neo-Nazis in Germany. But beyond that, there is the question of what it means to be Anti-Nazi. Is being Anti-Nazi invading a whole country because you claim that someone in that country might be a Neo-Nazi? Or is it being for free speech even for Neo-Nazis?

If so, they must have been post WW II German neo-Nazis. And given the state between Russia and the Nazis, why in the hell would any neo-Nazi have anything to do with any Russian. As for the rest, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[fortify]

There were millions of Ukrainians and Russians who saw the Nazis as liberators, and joined them. There were tens of millions of Ukrainians and Russians who sacrificed everything to fight the Nazis. I think it is safe to say that Zelenskyy's family was extremely anti-Nazi, for obvious reasons.

There were even American's who were pro-Nazi, like trump's father.

As I pointed out with what the Nobel Laureate Alexandyr Solzhenitsyn had to say about the genocide in Russia, there would no doubt be pro-Hitler Russians. From what I have been reading, strangely enough, there are apparently pro-Hitler Ukrainians who are fighting with the pro-Russian forces in the eastern Ukraine. As for anybody in the U.S. admiring Hitler, there are many. As there should be. Because if i could get away with telling you the truth in that regard, you would flip out. But I do have a couple things to show you.

 

[fortify]

There were also Nazi collaborators in Vichy France, Austria, Norway, Denmark.

Vichy France was the most notorious example of Nazi collaboration in WW2. The fact is the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians opposed the Nazi invasion, and fought in the Red Army to drive the Nazis out. You would be hard pressed to name many nations which suffered more from Nazi occupation than Ukraine.

You have to be kidding. As I said, the Russians slaughtered millions of Ukrainians. Why would any Ukrainian with any common sense help the Russians against the Nazis.

 

[fortify]

Here is something about France.

 

[anatta]

Vichy France was the most notorious example of collaboration with Nazi Germany, bar none. The French authoritarian nationalist righwing to this day remains a major force in French politics. Marie Le Pen won 40 percent of the national vote last week.

Should France be invaded?

Zelensky is a jew, and Vichy France as a very select group of collaboators

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...behind-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-180979672/
Natalie Belsky, a historian at the University of Minnesota Duluth, points out that one of the biggest massacres of the Holocaust took place just outside of Kyiv. Between 1941 and 1943, the Nazis—aided by local collaborators—shot around 70,000 to 100,000 people, many of them Jews, at Babyn Yar, a ravine on the outskirts of Kyiv. According to the National WWII Museum, one in every four Jewish victims of the Holocaust was murdered in Ukraine.

While Germans often think of World War II as a fight against the Russians, the majority of the fighting actually took place in modern-day Ukraine and Belarus, as well as large parts of western Russia, says Dobczansky. Under the German occupation, several million Ukrainians were sent to Germany to work on farms and in factories. Still, because the Nazi racial hierarchy placed Ukrainians above Russians, the Nazis made a limited attempt to promote Ukrainian national culture in occupied territories—a move that, in turn, helped bring some of the Ukrainian nationalist movement to the German side.

“Those [nationalist] groups certainly had anti-Semitic elements”

 

[anatta]

Are you a government agent paid to spread disinformation and help keep the populace stupid? What lead to the conflict was that the majority of the Ukrainian people wanted closer economic ties to Europe. Not Russia and the East. But their pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych wanted the Ukraine to have closer economic ties to Russia. In November 2013, an uprising started in the Ukraine called the Euromaden. This led to what was called the Revolution of Dignity or Maidan Revolution in February 2014. That in turn led to the ousting of the pro-Russian president. After that, Putin finding a reason to invade the Ukraine was only a matter of time. It had nothing to do with NATO. What it had to do with was that the Ukraine had much that Russia wanted. For instance, the Ukraine is the largest producer of food in Europe.

you leave out the fact the Maidan wasn't a revolution
until we fomented it
It was a protest against joining Russia's Eurasian Economic Community that Yanukovych negotiated
with Putin as a way to pay off Ukraine nat gas debt

John McCain took the stage with Svoboda and gave a Nazi salute (Euromaidan)

Nuland and her husband Robert Kagan ( notorious neocons) fomented and worked the crowd
with talk of becoming freedom fighters
They were playing geo-politics as evidenced by the "Fuck the EU"phone call
( cites on all this available by request)
Russia separatists started the war in Donbass over being disenfranchised -and the USA was upto their eyeballs in it all

we very much made Ukraine from a neutral buffer state into a well armed defacto pro-west state
which became an existential threat to Putin

 

[Walt]

If so, they must have been post WW II German neo-Nazis. And given the state between Russia and the Nazis, why in the hell would any neo-Nazi have anything to do with any Russian. As for the rest, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

So your problem with Putin being a supporter of the Neo-Nazis is that you do not understand why the Neo-Nazis would want to be supported by the KGB? For the most part, Neo-Nazis are not true believers, and even when they are, they are willing to compromise. Rainer Sonntag wanted the support (mostly financial) that Putin gave him.

Putin also supported the Red Army Faction, with money and weapons. He was, and is, willing to support any terrorist willing to attack America.