Democrats and Rural Voters

He's typically much better than that. He must be having a rough day. Sure...if people were butt hurt because Hillary correctly referred to the scum in the MAGA movement, by all means don't vote for her. He was never going to vote for her anyway.

But he then proceeds to parrot verbatim, the crap we've come to expect from Dummkopf, Hannity, and Carlson.

Democrat policies 'demand that he capitulates to their way of thinking'? Is he delusional?
No. Democrat policies demand that people capitulate to their way of thinking. It is tyranny.
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Republicans force their way into the bedrooms of the entire nation,
No one is forcing their way into bedrooms. You are hallucinating.
Swan wrote:
be they gay, low income, rural or urban.
Makes no difference. These are terms used by Democrats to divide people.
Swan wrote:
It isn't Democrats who are banning books.
Yes it is.
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Democrat policies demand the same rights for everyone.
Lie. Democrat policies are designed around elitism. Democrats are racist and they are bigots.
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If he's obsessing over the fact that gay people can get married,
They can't. It is not possible to have children with that behavior.
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that's just something he'll have to work out in therapy.
Psychoquackery. Inversion fallacies. You cannot project your own problems or the problems of the Democrats upon others. They are YOUR problems.
 
Leaving aside there's not even a link in the OP to actually read the article what I said still stands true. What one person in Maine supposedly said doesn't change anything. Much of politics is about perception. And the perception is, generally speaking, Republicans don't care about minorities and Democrats don't care about more rural type people and that is reflected in the votes. (There are minorities who Republican just as there are rural people who vote Democratic but again, generally speaking...)

Politics and political parties aren't static. That these perceptions are held today doesn't guarantee they will be held in the future. Things change. But that's where we are today.
 
Leaving aside there's not even a link in the OP to actually read the article what I said still stands true. What one person in Maine supposedly said doesn't change anything. Much of politics is about perception. And the perception is, generally speaking, Republicans don't care about minorities and Democrats don't care about more rural type people and that is reflected in the votes. (There are minorities who Republican just as there are rural people who vote Democratic but again, generally speaking...)
Bigotry.
Politics and political parties aren't static. That these perceptions are held today doesn't guarantee they will be held in the future. Things change. But that's where we are today.
Nothing has changed about the Democrats. They have been bigots and racist since the party was first created. They have been elitists and tyrants since the party was first created.
 
The NYT has an article called "What Democrats Don’t Understand About Rural America" looking at why Democrats are failing to win with rural voters:

In the story, a rural woman in Maine said that she'd been
undecided between Clinton and Trump until Election Day but voted for Trump because, at the Republican convention, he talked about regular American working people and Clinton didn’t at her convention.

So, is that true?

We have the transcripts telling us exactly what each candidate said at the convention. Clinton spoke of "working people" four times, Trump once. For Trump, it was a one-liner about how his (slum-lord) father taught him to respect working people. For Clinton, those four references were part of the main section of her speech, which served as its central theme, talking about the struggles of working people and what the government could do to help:

"I’ve gone around our country talking to working families. And I’ve heard from so many of you who feel like the economy just isn’t working. Some of you are frustrated – even furious. And you know what??? You’re right. It’s not yet working the way it should. Americans are willing to work – and work hard. But right now, an awful lot of people feel there is less and less respect for the work they do. And less respect for them, period. Democrats are the party of working people. But we haven’t done a good enough job showing that we get what you’re going through, and that we’re going to do something about it. So I want to tell you tonight how we will empower Americans to live better lives. My primary mission as President will be to create more opportunity and more good jobs with rising wages right here in the United States… From my first day in office to my last! Especially in places that for too long have been left out and left behind. From our inner cities to our small towns, from Indian Country to Coal Country. From communities ravaged by addiction to regions hollowed out by plant closures..... Whatever party you belong to, or if you belong to no party at all, if you share these beliefs, this is your campaign. If you believe that companies should share profits with their workers, not pad executive bonuses, join us. If you believe the minimum wage should be a living wage… and no one working full time should have to raise their children in poverty… join us. If you believe that every man, woman, and child in America has the right to affordable health care…join us.... And yes, if you believe that your working mother, wife, sister, or daughter deserves equal pay… join us… Let’s make sure this economy works for everyone, not just those at the top.

Again and again she spoke about working people -- her own mother working as a house maid at age 14, hard-working immigrants, those with hopes of starting a small business who can't get bank loans to finance their dreams, and the working people Trump had stiffed over the years, as he regularly refused to pay his bills in full, forcing contractors to negotiate or litigate to get paid what he owed them. Then she went through a long list of specific plans, all built around the needs of working people.

Trump, by comparison, was five pages into his speech before he even got around to talking about jobs. His speech focused first and most on "violence in the streets and chaos in our communities." Time and again, it was about "terrorism and lawlessness." His promises were focused not around economic ideas for working people, but rather "appointing the best prosecutors and law enforcement," while fighting immigration.

So, I think we can say with confidence that the interviewed rural woman was lying about why she chose to vote for Trump. As a simple matter of FACT, Hillary Clinton spoke far more extensively about working people than Trump did. Trump ran on fear -- fear of Black people running wild in inner cities, fear of Hispanic immigrants, and fear of Muslim terrorists. Fear of the unfamiliar was the core theme of his speech, and that's what won over the rural voters.

I think you’re on the right track but it’s less about the policies and programs they speak of than who they both are as people in the minds of voters. Hillary projects a kind of jet set personality. She doesn’t fit in a rural America setting and the clashing image doesn’t rub off her like it does for Trump who bulls through whatever stereotypes are put in his way.

p.s. The article you referenced was a guest column written by two politically active people from rural Maine, and shouldn’t be presented as an expression of the paper’s opinion. The Times does diverse guest columns often. It’s one of the good journalistic features that separates them from the shrill. Moreover, the column delves into much more than what the candidates said at the conventions.
 
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martin;5091400 Hillary projects a kind of jet set personality. [/quote said:
See, I just don't get that. To me, Hillary Clinton has a pretty solid middle-class vibe. She comes from the Midwest and spent a good chunk of her adult life in the South. Her early adult life was spent in a little one-bedroom home in Fayetteville. Her career involved actually working for other people, like most of us do. It's a far cry from Trump, who was the child of one of the richest men in America and sent his whole life in a gold-plated jet-setter lifestyle in NYC, as boss of a giant corporation his daddy gave him. So, it's ironic that anyone would point to a "jet set personality" for Clinton, in that context.

Why does Clinton get hurt by having become wealthy late in life, while Trump's silver-spoon existence and billionaire Manhattan lifestyle doesn't rub the same people the wrong way? I think it comes down to hate. Donald Trump hates the same people that the undereducated white working class hates. He hates uppity women, Black people, immigrants, and religious minorities. That hate binds them together. It's the reason that rural Mainer was drawn to him, and why she wound up reaching for an out-and-out lie to explain her vote (because telling the truth, even to herself, would have been uncomfortable). You can't say you picked Trump because he hates the same folks you do, so instead you say it's because Hillary Clinton didn't talk about working people at the convention -- even though she not only demonstrably did, but demonstrably did so far more than Trump did.

To use the old cliche, Trump is the kind of person they'd like to have beer with.... because they can sit around getting drunk and telling bigoted jokes while ranting about "those people." Clinton, by comparison, may share a very similar background to them, but she outgrew that bigoted mindset, and who wants to get a beer with someone who may make you feel bad about being an asshole when you try to tell a nasty joke? I think that's why they call her Shrillary -- the idea that she's the kind of person who'd have the morals to speak out against bigotry, rather than joining in with the "locker room talk."

p.s. The article you referenced was a guest column written by two politically active people from rural Maine, and shouldn’t be presented as an expression of the paper’s opinion

The question is why the paper chose to trumpet that particular view, even when the column contained what they knew to be outright lies, without so much as providing a reality check? I have no problem with them providing a diversity of viewpoints, but when someone is going to make a flat-out incorrect statement about a verifiable matter, the paper has a responsibility to set the record straight. If, for example, I wrote a column saying the Obama years had the highest GDP growth rate in American history, the paper either should require me to remove that flat-out wrong statement before they'll publish, or they should provide, alongside it, an editorial clarification that my statement isn't actually true. If they provide me a soap box for saying wrong things, without correction, then they are shirking their responsibility and they may as well just be Twitter or Facebook.
 
Biden/Kam are harming working Americans.

Out of control crime, inflation, open borders all harm hard working Americans.
 
See, I just don't get that. To me, Hillary Clinton has a pretty solid middle-class vibe. She comes from the Midwest and spent a good chunk of her adult life in the South. Her early adult life was spent in a little one-bedroom home in Fayetteville. Her career involved actually working for other people, like most of us do. It's a far cry from Trump, who was the child of one of the richest men in America and sent his whole life in a gold-plated jet-setter lifestyle in NYC, as boss of a giant corporation his daddy gave him. So, it's ironic that anyone would point to a "jet set personality" for Clinton, in that context.

Why does Clinton get hurt by having become wealthy late in life, while Trump's silver-spoon existence and billionaire Manhattan lifestyle doesn't rub the same people the wrong way? I think it comes down to hate. Donald Trump hates the same people that the undereducated white working class hates. He hates uppity women, Black people, immigrants, and religious minorities. That hate binds them together. It's the reason that rural Mainer was drawn to him, and why she wound up reaching for an out-and-out lie to explain her vote (because telling the truth, even to herself, would have been uncomfortable). You can't say you picked Trump because he hates the same folks you do, so instead you say it's because Hillary Clinton didn't talk about working people at the convention -- even though she not only demonstrably did, but demonstrably did so far more than Trump did.

To use the old cliche, Trump is the kind of person they'd like to have beer with.... because they can sit around getting drunk and telling bigoted jokes while ranting about "those people." Clinton, by comparison, may share a very similar background to them, but she outgrew that bigoted mindset, and who wants to get a beer with someone who may make you feel bad about being an asshole when you try to tell a nasty joke? I think that's why they call her Shrillary -- the idea that she's the kind of person who'd have the morals to speak out against bigotry, rather than joining in with the "locker room talk."



The question is why the paper chose to trumpet that particular view, even when the column contained what they knew to be outright lies, without so much as providing a reality check? I have no problem with them providing a diversity of viewpoints, but when someone is going to make a flat-out incorrect statement about a verifiable matter, the paper has a responsibility to set the record straight. If, for example, I wrote a column saying the Obama years had the highest GDP growth rate in American history, the paper either should require me to remove that flat-out wrong statement before they'll publish, or they should provide, alongside it, an editorial clarification that my statement isn't actually true. If they provide me a soap box for saying wrong things, without correction, then they are shirking their responsibility and they may as well just be Twitter or Facebook.

you're a total elitist garbage human.
 
Hillary Clinton's Net Worth (Updated 2021) - Wealthy Gorilla
https://wealthygorilla.com › Net Worth
Apr 5, 2022 — Net Worth: $120 Million. Age: 73. Born: October 26, 1947. Country of Origin: United States of America. Source of Wealth: Politician. Last .

Solid middle class my culo.
 
Your failure to think of a substantive reply is noted, and your humiliation has been savored.

There is no merit in any of your argument.

it's pure, disconnected, non-specific elitism.

deal with the fact that the majority of the nation disagrees with the elites and the core tenets of globalization zealotry.

shipping is being subsidized by the finance industry to stop self reliance among all nations.

if you really cared about big oil destroying the climate you should advocate local production for all nations, as much as possible.

but you don;t do that because you're a fraud, and your first priority is building an unnatural reliance on centralized players into the system, so no nation can ever be free.
 
There is no merit in any of your argument.

it's pure, disconnected, non-specific elitism.

deal with the fact that the majority of the nation disagrees with the elites and the core tenets of globalization zealotry.

shipping is being subsidized by the finance industry to stop self reliance among all nations.

if you really cared about big oil destroying the climate you should advocate local production for all nations, as much as possible.

Local production can actually be more inefficient, in terms of fossil fuels. To take an extreme example, picture two possibilities: (1) grow oranges in Florida and ship them to Alaska for consumption, (2) grow oranges locally in Alaska, in giant heated greenhouses, fueled by fossil fuels. The former is going to have a lower climate burden. That basic thinking doesn't change merely because we're talking about a non-agricultural product, or because there's an international line in the way. That's why the way to handle it is a carbon tax, so that the cost of the carbon output is factored into supply chain decisions, and things will be done locally where it makes sense for them to be done locally, but not when it doesn't.
 
Local production can actually be more inefficient, in terms of fossil fuels. To take an extreme example, picture two possibilities: (1) grow oranges in Florida and ship them to Alaska for consumption, (2) grow oranges locally in Alaska, in giant heated greenhouses, fueled by fossil fuels. The former is going to have a lower climate burden. That basic thinking doesn't change merely because we're talking about a non-agricultural product, or because there's an international line in the way. That's why the way to handle it is a carbon tax, so that the cost of the carbon output is factored into supply chain decisions, and things will be done locally where it makes sense for them to be done locally, but not when it doesn't.

The basic thinking absolutely does change when you vary off that one example.

cherry picking fallacy. (or orange)

you lost.
 
The basic thinking absolutely does change when you vary off that one example.

It works for all sorts of examples. Does it make sense to grow warm-weather crops in NY green-houses or grow in California and ship to NY? Does it make sense for every state to mine its own aluminum -- even if ores are so poor quality locally that they have to mine and process vast amounts of it to get anything usable? Or does it make sense to mine it where there are good, economically-obtainable high-aluminium-content ores and then ship it to where it's used? Should every state have its own satellite-launch facilities, or rely on launch facilities in a few key areas best suited for that? Should every state make its own cheese, or should cheesemaking mostly be consolidated to a few area where there's a lot of local milk production, then ship out from there? Should each state strive to build all the cars driven there, or should most import them and a few areas specialize.

When it comes to states specializing/trading, or everyone trying to be a jack of all trades, even Trumpist protectionists tend to recognize the natural efficiencies of specialization and shipping over trying to source everything locally. But once we're talking about countries, instead of states, they tend to be blinded by their protectionist and nativist instincts, and imagine the same considerations magically vanish at artificial lines on a map. But it doesn't work that way. The same considerations that can make it more efficient (economically AND environmentally) to specialize and rely on shipping between states also can make it so between nations.
 
See, I just don't get that. To me, Hillary Clinton has a pretty solid middle-class vibe. She comes from the Midwest and spent a good chunk of her adult life in the South. Her early adult life was spent in a little one-bedroom home in Fayetteville. Her career involved actually working for other people, like most of us do. It's a far cry from Trump, who was the child of one of the richest men in America and sent his whole life in a gold-plated jet-setter lifestyle in NYC, as boss of a giant corporation his daddy gave him. So, it's ironic that anyone would point to a "jet set personality" for Clinton, in that context.

Why does Clinton get hurt by having become wealthy late in life, while Trump's silver-spoon existence and billionaire Manhattan lifestyle doesn't rub the same people the wrong way? I think it comes down to hate. Donald Trump hates the same people that the undereducated white working class hates. He hates uppity women, Black people, immigrants, and religious minorities. That hate binds them together. It's the reason that rural Mainer was drawn to him, and why she wound up reaching for an out-and-out lie to explain her vote (because telling the truth, even to herself, would have been uncomfortable). You can't say you picked Trump because he hates the same folks you do, so instead you say it's because Hillary Clinton didn't talk about working people at the convention -- even though she not only demonstrably did, but demonstrably did so far more than Trump did.

To use the old cliche, Trump is the kind of person they'd like to have beer with.... because they can sit around getting drunk and telling bigoted jokes while ranting about "those people." Clinton, by comparison, may share a very similar background to them, but she outgrew that bigoted mindset, and who wants to get a beer with someone who may make you feel bad about being an asshole when you try to tell a nasty joke? I think that's why they call her Shrillary -- the idea that she's the kind of person who'd have the morals to speak out against bigotry, rather than joining in with the "locker room talk."



The question is why the paper chose to trumpet that particular view, even when the column contained what they knew to be outright lies, without so much as providing a reality check? I have no problem with them providing a diversity of viewpoints, but when someone is going to make a flat-out incorrect statement about a verifiable matter, the paper has a responsibility to set the record straight. If, for example, I wrote a column saying the Obama years had the highest GDP growth rate in American history, the paper either should require me to remove that flat-out wrong statement before they'll publish, or they should provide, alongside it, an editorial clarification that my statement isn't actually true. If they provide me a soap box for saying wrong things, without correction, then they are shirking their responsibility and they may as well just be Twitter or Facebook.

The policy content of Clinton's speeches was much less impactful, I think, than the woman voters saw when she spoke and the woman they had come to know in the campaign and the years before, who you and I both see differently from those who peg her an elitist. I agree she's not. The same observation is true, I think, of Trump, who can say anything and his voters will cherish him all the same. As for the factual "lies" I don't see where you identified them.
 
It works for all sorts of examples. Does it make sense to grow warm-weather crops in NY green-houses or grow in California and ship to NY? Does it make sense for every state to mine its own aluminum -- even if ores are so poor quality locally that they have to mine and process vast amounts of it to get anything usable? Or does it make sense to mine it where there are good, economically-obtainable high-aluminium-content ores and then ship it to where it's used? Should every state have its own satellite-launch facilities, or rely on launch facilities in a few key areas best suited for that? Should every state make its own cheese, or should cheesemaking mostly be consolidated to a few area where there's a lot of local milk production, then ship out from there? Should each state strive to build all the cars driven there, or should most import them and a few areas specialize.

When it comes to states specializing/trading, or everyone trying to be a jack of all trades, even Trumpist protectionists tend to recognize the natural efficiencies of specialization and shipping over trying to source everything locally. But once we're talking about countries, instead of states, they tend to be blinded by their protectionist and nativist instincts, and imagine the same considerations magically vanish at artificial lines on a map. But it doesn't work that way. The same considerations that can make it more efficient (economically AND environmentally) to specialize and rely on shipping between states also can make it so between nations.

nations are larger, you're focusing on micro regional comparative advantages to make your dumb case.

does it make sense to ship apples from america to china to be made into applesauce and then shipped back?

human slavery and a negative minimum wage is not a legitimate comparative advantage.
 
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