JD Vance "...Russia, it is not in our vital national security interest,"

BartenderElite said:
Libya, Iraq, Syria - these are all apples to watermelons comparisons.

This is the entire globe's problem. Honestly, it's useless for us to really try to "debate" the Ukraine conflict. I'm mystified by your position and attempts to take blame off of Putin. This is entirely his war, and his actions have made it our problem - not just Europe's. That really sounds like Chamberlain kind of stuff.
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no it's not the "whole globe's problem" - it's not even a NATO state we went to war with Russia over.
It's essence is still a border war between Russia and Ukraine

If you had said "China is the whole globe's problem" you would have a had a clue
But you listen to Biden and Zelnsky trying to sell this war as an existential threat :palm:

The only existential threat is if we make it one by warring against Russia
Meanwhile China uses it's soft power (know what that is?) to suck up African resources and
replace Pax Americana with the CCP fascists
 
dukkha said:
no it's not the "whole globe's problem" - it's not even a NATO state we went to war with Russia over.
It's essence is still a border war between Russia and Ukraine

If you had said "China is the whole globe's problem" you would have a had a clue
But you listen to Biden and Zelnsky trying to sell this war as an existential threat :palm:

The only existential threat is if we make it one by warring against Russia
Meanwhile China uses it's soft power (know what that is?) to such up African resources and
replace Pax Americana with the CCP fascists
Click to expand...

We don't even have to go past economics to prove definitively how much of a problem it is for the entire world.
 
BartenderElite said:
This is like a take from another planet.
This conflict is simple. It IS good guys and bad guys. There is nothing complicated about it.
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and there you have it. the dumbed down sales pitch for war against Russia ( da bad guys)

at least you didnt say "defending democracy" so you are not complete wrong
 
dukkha said:
and there you have it. the dumbed down sales pitch for war against Russia ( da bad guys)

at least you didnt say "defending democracy" so you are not complete wrong
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It's not oversimplifying to say that the Russians are the bad guys. They are - as bad as almost anyone in history.
 
BartenderElite said:
It's not oversimplifying to say that the Russians are the bad guys. They are - as bad as almost anyone in history.
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lol..it's like talking to a child
but to advance this dumb as shit argument -what threat is there to the USA? to NATO?
to anyone but Ukraine?
Ukraine is a shithole corrupt society.
Why you ( not singling you out) feel the need to make it our war is they classic neocon play

What's next? "we fight them over there so we dont fight them over here?"
 
dukkha said:
lol..it's like talking to a child
but to advance this dumb as shit argument -what threat is there to the USA? to NATO?
to anyone but Ukraine?
Ukraine is a shithole corrupt society.
Why you ( not singling you out) feel the need to make it our war is they classic neocon play

What's next? "we fight them over there so we dont fight them over here?"
Click to expand...

You always go in a certain direction when you realize how wrong you are.

Not worth it. I'm sorry that you feel the need to go all ad hom when your arguments have no real foundation.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Russia has massive resources, extensive technical ability, and control of the artic....all of which are vastly valuable to the Chinese as they build their Empire anew, this time it will be global.
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somebody gets it
At one time we were PARTNERING with Gazprom using Exxon high tech equipment for Arctic extraction
Then we decided "oh no" - cant have this!
and now China and Russia are BY FAR the most active in Arctic extractions of oil and minerals
 
BartenderElite said:
You always go in a certain direction when you realize how wrong you are.
Not worth it. I'm sorry that you feel the need to go all ad hom when you're losing.
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when you can answer my points in rebuttal format instead of talking about "bad guys"
you might be worth my time
 
It's funny that "bad guys" triggers you.

What the Russian army & Putin are doing is the same as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot. This is a massacre. If they're not "bad guys"....what are they exactly?

Like I said - it's not oversimplifying. They're bad guys. What they are doing is evil, and unforgivable.
 
dukkha said:
somebody gets it
At one time we were PARTNERING with Gazprom using Exxon high tech equipment for Arctic extraction
Then we decided "oh no" - cant have this!
and now China and Russia are BY FAR the most active in Arctic extractions of oil and minerals
Click to expand...

I have always recommended education!
 
Just wait till the global famine gets here, and a lot of the World blames America and Europe first for it.
 
BartenderElite said:
It's funny that "bad guys" triggers you.

What the Russian army & Putin are doing is the same as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot. This is a massacre. If they're not "bad guys"....what are they exactly?
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i dont get triggered. im too old . I do get righteous anger and simply pissed off at times
Yes you can condemn the war and "bad guys" as far as that goes. I've never defended the war
I only point out there were many chances to avoid it. many many "off ramps" to peace we bypassed
In the slim hope that we dont do it again

And I hold NATO and USA meddling 100% for setting up the conditions of poking the bear
right in it's side over and over without even understanding why.
the Cold Warriors 2.0 that brought us this hot war did it because they could. simply that
not for any rational reason.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Just wait till the global famine gets here, and a lot of the World blames America and Europe first for it.
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we slit our throat by exacerbating the war instead of trying for peacetalks
Uk produces a lot of grain and food oils -used to be called the "breadbasket of Russia"
 
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