Russians make another offer to besieged Ukrainians.
- Thread starter moon
- Start date
this is the problem for Zelensky -or more correctly his people.. All Zelensky does is scream for more weapons - while prohibiting men from leaving the country. His bellicose rhetoric makes people think they should die a useless death for a questionable cause (Donbas - if not all of Ukraine)
But the mayor refusing to surrender with civilians trapped is more evidence of that mindset.
Life is cheap in Ukraine,and it's leaders set that tone
floridafan
Verified User
Shod the Ukranians be allowed to protect and defend their own country from invaders? Or possibly you would prefer to hand the Russians any Ukranian land they wish.
I do not expect weak and untested Americans to ever understand the East Slavic unyielding tenacity and mentality in defending their motherland against rampaging legions of invaders.
Weak MAGA Americans don't understand a tactical loss can be a strategic victory
Tenacious Defense of Marupiel Inflicted Substantial Damage on the Invaders
While the defenders of the city are now confined to the steel plant, Ukrainians and western military analysts said that in weeks of fighting they killed high-ranking Russian soldiers and many members of elite Russian fighting units.
Even as the city around them was reduced to rubble, Ukrainian soldiers continued to ambush and attack Russians entering the city. It is impossible to know exactly how many Russian soldiers were killed in the battle but the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington think-tank, said they suffered “high casualties.”
“Russian forces involved in the battle of Mariupol are likely heavily damaged and Ukrainian forces succeeded in tying down and degrading a substantial Russian force,”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...rld/ukraine-russia-war-news.amp.htmlaccording to the group’s analysis.
Tenacious Defense of Marupiel Inflicted Substantial Damage on the Invaders
While the defenders of the city are now confined to the steel plant, Ukrainians and western military analysts said that in weeks of fighting they killed high-ranking Russian soldiers and many members of elite Russian fighting units.
Even as the city around them was reduced to rubble, Ukrainian soldiers continued to ambush and attack Russians entering the city. It is impossible to know exactly how many Russian soldiers were killed in the battle but the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington think-tank, said they suffered “high casualties.”
“Russian forces involved in the battle of Mariupol are likely heavily damaged and Ukrainian forces succeeded in tying down and degrading a substantial Russian force,”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...rld/ukraine-russia-war-news.amp.htmlaccording to the group’s analysis.
This is why I do not believe they are selling weapons to terrorists. It’s just stupidity on steroids to make that claim.
I have never even heard that story.
The unyielding defense of Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kharkiv, Marupiel are unsurprising to anyone who understands history and the tenacity of East Slavic peoples when invaders threaten their families and homes with rape and annihilation .
Marjorie Taylor Green and more than a few MAGA on this forum were hollering that the Ukranians should just lay down their weapons and submit.
Life is cheap because Russia is murdering people. Trying to blame it on Ukranian officials is silly.
A "humanitarian pause"?
your analysis is less then simplistic. It's like "good guys and bad guys" level.
Clearly Im not going to waste my time talking about NATO expansion, and uber-militarization of Ukraine instead of it being a non-aligned state that prolly would have prevented this
But I was talking about Mariupol specifically and their refusal to surrender;
which is how Zelensky has been hyping this entire war.
You surrender to save lives -Zelensky doesnt seem to care with his constant admonitions to fight to the last man.. and this was just yesterday. He's throwing away lives on a lost cause here
Ukraine’s president vows nation will oppose Russia to ‘last man’ 4/21
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...t-vows-nation-will-oppose-russia-to-last-man/
oh please. your sanctimonious BS is tedious.. Americans have fought to the last man before and
it's a waste of lives
But was an important motivating factor that eventually led to victory.
I told you you wouldn't understand it.
You and the MAGA boys have been insisting Ukrainians just submit to the Invaders for six Weeks.
.I have news for you. Ukrainians have a real shot at winning this war on favorable terms, considering they were out manned and vastly out gunned.
As for the theory that unyielding defense is just a general expectation...
Americans surrendered en mass at corregidor.
Americans have no experience, none, nada, zilch, similar to Leningrad, Kharkiv, Marupiel.
Germans walked into Vienna, Prague, Copenhagen virtually unopposed.
I don't buy the claim that it is perfectly natural to expect a defender to put up a tenacious and unyielding defense against invading forces.
If there is a path to victory, then calling for valor in battle is fine
i am talking about a bunch of trapped Uk troops WITH CIVILIANS that have no such path.
Zelensky has gotten to the point he's believing his own press. It's fine if he urges on his troops.
I wouldn't expect less - but you have to pick the battles where you have a chance to win to do that
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Uk has superior weapons -Russia's are top knotch - but not against NATO advanced weapons when it comes to JAVELIN. How they beat back the Kyiv advance
Bu the war is shifting to Donbas, and Uk forces have been taking heavy loses like the Russians did on their armor
whatever the battle situation it's way past time for peace talks. I dont really expect Zelensky to call for it
But I sure as hell expect Biden and NATO to look to stop the meatgrinder
BartenderElite
Verified User
Just to clarify for anyone reading this thread:
In this situation, there are definite good guys, and bad guys. It's a simple one.
In this situation, there are definite good guys, and bad guys. It's a simple one.
Russia is the invader, but you refuse to hold Putin accountable.
moon
Satire for Sanity
The Russians are supporting the self-determination of anti-NATO , pro-Russian Ukrainians . These people have already voted to rejoin the Russian Federation or to become republics.
They have been disenfranchised by a US-led coup and shelled for eight years by Neo-Nazi Ukrainian militias.
If you want to call it an ' invasion ' then it is based upon the many precedents set by the United States . Where is your moral authority for condemnation , pious wanker ?
You don't actually give a flying fuck about the human rights of any Russians or Russian-speakers.
moon
Satire for Sanity
Dumbass blowhard. You're simply out of crocodile tears for the poor , misunderstood, Ukrainian Neo-Nazis.
The Petrograd Madonna, by Kuzma Petrov-Vodkin, 1922
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I have seen zero tangible evidence that you have ever genuinely given a crap about the human rights of Russians and native Russian speakers.