Is cancelation of student debt "fair?"

[Dutch Uncle]

They get good jobs and pay back in taxes.

Possibly. First they have to graduate then they have to get a good job. I've seen a lot of secretaries with degrees in zoology and French Lit.

Note the stats below. The first two years of college can be done living at home to save money. The majority of the first two years of college can be done online.

IMO, let's work on making college cheaper and more accessible, even to AP HS students, rather than simply giving away money to overpriced colleges.

https://educationdata.org/college-dropout-rates
n the United States, the overall dropout rate for undergraduate college students is 40%.

• 30% of the dropout rate comes from college freshman dropping out before their sophomore year.
• In 4-year colleges, 56% of students drop out within 6 years.
• Black students had the highest college dropout rate at 54%.
• 38% of college dropouts – the largest majority – said they left due to financial pressure.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I knew a guy that flunked out of Med school with $225K of debt.

A good example even if it's relatively rare. Why should every American taxpayer be expected to pay that?

Consider the Housing Boom Bust under Bush the Lesser; several Americans found themselves underwater in overpriced homes they couldn't afford because they speculated with an ARM. When Obama came in he wanted to bail them out. They gambled and lost. Why should Americans who were smarter and bought homes they could afford be expected to pay for the homes of gamblers who lost?

If a man took the college savings of his kids and gambled and lost it all in Vegas, why should any American taxpayer be expected to bail him out so his kids can go to college? It would be wrong to bail him out because it rewards stupidity.

Find a better way.

 

[Matt Dillon]

Possibly. First they have to graduate then they have to get a good job. I've seen a lot of secretaries with degrees in zoology and French Lit.

Note the stats below. The first two years of college can be done living at home to save money. The majority of the first two years of college can be done online.

IMO, let's work on making college cheaper and more accessible, even to AP HS students, rather than simply giving away money to overpriced colleges.

https://educationdata.org/college-dropout-rates
n the United States, the overall dropout rate for undergraduate college students is 40%.

• 30% of the dropout rate comes from college freshman dropping out before their sophomore year.
• In 4-year colleges, 56% of students drop out within 6 years.
• Black students had the highest college dropout rate at 54%.
• 38% of college dropouts – the largest majority – said they left due to financial pressure.

It was like that back in the day. Before Uncle Sam agreed to pick up the tab for student loan defaults.

I put myself through school with grants and a couple of part-time jobs.

Towards the end is when they started letting in masses of un-college-material students.

That's when the prices of everything started rising. That last year's book cost was gettin' out of hand.

 

[Cypress]

What isn't fair is that when I went to University of California, my annual tuition and fees was abou $2500, and today tuition and fees at the same school is 15 grand. A generation before me, University of California was essentially free in the 1960s when the first Boomers attended..

I really don't think there has been 500 percent inflation since I graduated. The reality is more of the burden of educational expense has been shifted away from the public commonwealth onto the shoulders of 22 year olds.

 

[ExpressLane]

What isn't fair is that when I went to University of California, my annual tuition and fees was abou $2500, and today tuition and fees at the same school is 15 grand.

I really don't think there has been 500 percent inflation since I graduated. The reality is more of the burden of educational expense has been shifted away from the public commonwealth onto the shoulders of 22 year olds.

How much was gasoline when you graduated?

 

[Cypress]

How much was gasoline when you graduated?

So you're saying the financial burden on new college graduates is even worse than the point I made about tuition increases

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Here is what progressive Democrats don't get- Paying off the current student loans is not going to help the poorest Americans!

If there are poor people attending America's Ivy League colleges and Universities, Med Schools, and Law Schools, it is because they received scholarships and grants already to get themselves there.

Poor families and individuals have not the credit nor the collateral to even qualify for those kinds of HIGH DOLLAR student loans.

So, if the Government were to wave student loans, it would be serving mostly the already wealthiest and advantaged American Families that have no problem with paying off their own student loans.

When you are well off in America, you don't have to work your way through college or even pay for it yourself, as most well off families want their children to focus on getting through school, and are capable of acquiring huge sums of money, as much as a quarter of million dollars or more, for student loans for their children.

The people who are struggling the most with student loans owe less than $10,000 - $20,000 in student loans.

SO THIS IS A BAD IDEA, and there are better ways to get a better bang for the buck to help get the less advantaged Americans educated without giving away a windfall of 100's of billions of dollars to the most advantaged and well off Americans that would gladly take their gifted perks and just laugh all the way to the bank- while dogging the Democrats and supporting dangerous Donald Trump selected candidates in the upcoming Mid-Term elections.

It would not gain one vote for the Democrats anyway. So WHY DO IT?

Why shoot yourself in the ass for a bunch of disgruntled Bernie bots wanting everything for free- that didn't even vote for Joe Biden in the first place out of spite.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

What isn't fair is that when I went to University of California, my annual tuition and fees was abou $2500, and today tuition and fees at the same school is 15 grand. A generation before me, University of California was essentially free in the 1960s when the first Boomers attended..

I really don't think there has been 500 percent inflation since I graduated. The reality is more of the burden of educational expense has been shifted away from the public commonwealth onto the shoulders of 22 year olds.

Disagreed since the public commonwealth never paid for college except for veterans. What changed was the Feel-Good solution of government-backed college loans.

Just like the Feel-Good solution of giving low interest mortgages to people who couldn't afford them causing the housing market to rise in cost, colleges took advantage of those low-interest loans to charge more since the students could 1) get the loan regardless and 2) if they defaulted then Taxpayers pay the bills. It's a Win for the colleges and a loss for the American taxpayer.

Whether it's college or housing, making it "free" by having the American taxpayer pay for it isn't "free". It's a scam to make the rich richer by placing the burdern on the shoulders of the American Middle Class.

Make college cheaper by providing cheaper options, not by having taxpayers foot the bill, please. Online education is the best path for now.

 

[Cypress]

Disagreed since the public commonwealth never paid for college except for veterans. What changed was the Feel-Good solution of government-backed college loans.

Just like the Feel-Good solution of giving low interest mortgages to people who couldn't afford them causing the housing market to rise in cost, colleges took advantage of those low-interest loans to charge more since the students could 1) get the loan regardless and 2) if they defaulted then Taxpayers pay the bills. It's a Win for the colleges and a loss for the American taxpayer.

Whether it's college or housing, making it "free" by having the American taxpayer pay for it isn't "free". It's a scam to make the rich richer by placing the burdern on the shoulders of the American Middle Class.

Make college cheaper by providing cheaper options, not by having taxpayers foot the bill, please. Online education is the best path for now.

Public universities were always subsidized by the the state. Anyone who went to a public university was subsidized by the state and the taxpayer, even more so 40 years ago when public university tuition was generally much more affordable.

 

[Stone]

There are many people with student debt arising from attending college. No argument on that.

Is it 'fair' or somehow 'just' that this debt be forgiven--cancelled--because the student(s) that incurred it can't easily pay it back?

The Democrats certainly think so. That is, many Democrats, particularly those on the Left, think it's fair and just that these debts be forgiven in their entirety.

As an example of this, radical Leftist, and anti-Americanist Pramila Jayapal is calling for forgiving all student debt:



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...sedgntp&cvid=03b5903f7852475890430fdb8646e31b

Now, I might be a bit more forgiving on this if the colleges and universities, many of which have enormous endowments, ate that loss rather than taxpayers. But the radical Leftists wanting debt forgiveness are mortified by the mere suggestion that their supporters among radical Leftist academica would have to foot the bill. Some egalitarian socialists they are...

No,..... not fair at all. Opens the door for the Govt paying off everyones mortgage or car note. Enuff is enuff! Besides,....colleges are literally FILLED with people who have no business being there. Way too many imbeciles in college only to end up working at a 7-11 because they cant cut the mustard in the real world. They get bitter, blame the system and everyone else when the real problem is THEM and never should have been in college in the 1st place.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Public universities were always subsidized by the the state. Anyone who went to a public university was subsidized by the state and the taxpayer, even more so 40 years ago when public university tuition was generally much more affordable.

States are free to do what they want. I was referencing the push to Federalize "free college".

It's easy for Washington bureaucrats to spend OPM. Often to the applause of those voters who seek to vote themselves the Treasury.

After 9/11, the push came to compensate the families of the dead. Really? Sad, but why? Do you remember the shitshow that turned into? The abuses?

What about the abuses of the Katrina funding? COVID funding? Better to find a way to provide low cost housing and college instead of just throwing taxpayer money at problems.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

Disagreed since the public commonwealth never paid for college except for veterans. What changed was the Feel-Good solution of government-backed college loans.

Just like the Feel-Good solution of giving low interest mortgages to people who couldn't afford them causing the housing market to rise in cost, colleges took advantage of those low-interest loans to charge more since the students could 1) get the loan regardless and 2) if they defaulted then Taxpayers pay the bills. It's a Win for the colleges and a loss for the American taxpayer.

Whether it's college or housing, making it "free" by having the American taxpayer pay for it isn't "free". It's a scam to make the rich richer by placing the burdern on the shoulders of the American Middle Class.

Make college cheaper by providing cheaper options, not by having taxpayers foot the bill, please. Online education is the best path for now.

Without the GI bill it would have taken me longer , although back then a semester at state community college was under $300 and at state university of NY a couple of thousand a semester

 

[Cypress]

States are free to do what they want. I was referencing the push to Federalize "free college".

I think Germany subsidizes free college.
California subsidized free college before Reagan became governor.

Public community college is still basically free in California.

I don't think it was a disaster. That was actually California's golden era.

 

[ExpressLane]

So you're saying the financial burden on new college graduates is even worse than the point I made about tuition increases

I'm saying gasoline was about 55 cents a gallon when I graduated and now its $4 a gallon. But I agree that Colleges have done little to rein in their tuition costs.. Government money has given them no incentive to control cost.

 

[Cypress]

I'm saying gasoline was about 55 cents a gallon when I graduated and now its $4 a gallon. But I agree that Colleges have done little to rein in their tuition costs.. Government money has given them no incentive to control cost.

What we are seeing in gasoline is a short term fluctuation. Gasoline is notorious for spikey fluctuations.

My guess is that is you averaged out long term gas prices over the last fourty years we have experienced very little gasoline inflation in real terms.

Gasoline also isn't a big part of a college students Budget. Most live on campus, or near campus in apartment housing. I rode my bike to campus and never drove.

 

[ExpressLane]

What we are seeing in gasoline is a short term fluctuation. Gasoline is notorious for spikey fluctuations.

My guess is that is you averaged out long term gas prices over the last fourty years we have experienced very little gasoline inflation in real terms.

Gasoline also isn't a big part of a college students Budget. Most live on campus, or near campus in apartment housing. I rode my bike to campus and never drove.

Yes I expect gasoline prices will go back down when the next Republican President gets elected in 2024.

 

[Jarod]

Hell No!.....it is designed to further break America down.....this is straight up betrayal changing the rules on the fly, rewarding irresponsibility and lack of consideration of others.

By “break America down” you mean, allow those born poor out of their cages.

 

[Monad Portal]

By “break America down” you mean, allow those born poor out of their cages.

it's rewarding academics who don't provide students with economically beneficial educations.

universities have become indoctrination centers who are creating insane people.

just like banker bailouts keep people from learning their lesson about financial institutions, university bailouts keep people from learning the value of the academic setting. right now it's a psycho assembly line.

defund indoctrination.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Without the GI bill it would have taken me longer , although back then a semester at state community college was under $300 and at state university of NY a couple of thousand a semester

Apples to Apples requires an inflation calculator. I worked my way through college; part-time during the year, full-time when school was out making minimum wage of about $2.50.

I lived at home for the first two years and attended Arapahoe Community College. Although I had the option to keep living at home and attending Denver Metro to finish my degree, I wanted the "college experience", continued to work and obtained a $10K school loan. The Marine Corps gave me $100/month for the 9 month school year.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
1977 to 2022
$2.50 = $11.86
$100 = $474.43
$10,000 = $47,442.90

By working after school and on weekends and holidays, I was able to graduate with only the $47.4K debt (which took me over 7 years to pay off). Initially I only paid the minimum but about 3-4 years later, I self-imposed an austerity plan to pay off all debt.

Agreed that colleges charge more but it's because they can. If the government reduced the amount of school loans, over time the colleges would have to reduce rates or lose students...and go broke. Free money isn't free and, IMHO, it's part of the problem.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes I expect gasoline prices will go back down when the next Republican President gets elected in 2024.

Like under Bush the Lesser? How soon we forget that a President isn't a King who can wave his magic scepter and fix the economy.