No Amount Of Incremental Wind And Solar Power Can Ever Provide Energy Independence

Seawalls for the general welfare could include energy generation and water purification and pumping to the interior and for export.
Seawalls for the general welfare????!? What kind of wacky phrase is that???!?
And, could potentially be used to save at risk environments like Pacifica and areas of the Bay Area.
The risk to Pacifica and the Bay Area is the fact that they are located in the SDTC.
I can imagine a harbor that generates revenue with seawalls generating energy
Seawalls don't generate electricity. The SDTC has shut down many of it's power plants. They have only themselves to blame for lousy power.
and purifying water
Seawalls don't purify water. Rain does.
and pumping it to the interior and for export.
Rain already does that.
 
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Charge times get shorter and shorter. It is not necessary to end oil and nuke, but solar and wind will allow them to be slashed way, way back. Why does cutting it to zero have to be immediate? It does not. In the very long run, fossil fuels will go.
 
Something to ponder about so-called "green" energy bullshit.

"Batteries do not produce electricity - they store electricity, which is produced elsewhere, especially by coal, uranium, ground-gas-powered power plants or diesel-powered generators. So the claim that an electric car is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all true.

More or less correct. Power can be produced by most any means, most of which use some kind of fuel. The real problem with EV's is the long charge time and relatively short usable range because of it, and the cost.
Since forty percent of the electricity produced in the United States comes from coal power plants, forty percent of electric cars on the road are coal-based.
No. Most electricity in the States is generated by methane (natural gas). There are still a lot of coal plants around, but not forty percent.
But that's not all yet. Those of you who are passionate about electric cars and a green revolution should take a closer look at the batteries, but also wind turbines and solar cells.
It's out of sight, out of mind. They don't see the strip mining for lithium, the very limited supplies of lithium and cobalt, or the horrible conditions placed upon children working those mines, in nations not exactly friendly to the States.
They don't see the power plant that supports that charging station. They don't even see how many EV's are on the road vs gasoline or diesel vehicles. All they see is their smug little faces while driving and charging an EV and ignoring what makes it all possible.
A typical electric car battery weighs a thousand pounds, about the size of a travel suitcase.
Larger than that. It's basically the entire underside of the car.
It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel and plastic. There are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells inside.

To make each BEV battery, you need to process 25,000 pounds of sole for lithium, 30,000 pounds of resin for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of resin for nickel and 25,000 pounds of copper for the copper. All in all you need to dig 500,000 pounds of the earth crust for a battery. "
These numbers are obviously just made up. Argument from randU fallacy.
The main problem with solar systems is the chemicals used to convert silicon into the silicon used for the panels. In order to produce sufficient pure silicon, it must be processed with salic acid, sulfur acid, salpetic acid, fluoride hydrogen, trichlorethane and acetone.
No, the main problem with solar systems is the cost. It is the most expensive method of generating electricity, watt for watt.
In addition, gallium, arsenide, copper indium gallium dieselenide and cadmium telluride are needed, which are also highly toxic.
Gallium is not particularly toxic. The amount of material you are describing is very small, and locked within the crystal if it appears at all in the final product.
Silicone dust poses a threat to workers,
Nope. No silicon dust from the solar panel. It's a crystal. The base crystal is silicon dioxide, not silicon.
Silicon dioxide is not silicon. Silicon dioxide also appears in nature as common beach sand.
and the plates cannot be recycled.
True. Once dead, they are dead. There is no recycling them. They can be disposed of in a landfill however.
Wind turbines are the nonplusultra in terms of costs and environmental destruction. Each windwheel weighs 1688 tons (which is equivalent to 23 houses).
Argument form randU fallacy. Stop making up numbers.
A wind turbine blade is typically about 5 tons, and is shipped by a specially modified truck (to handle the length). There are three such blades on a wind turbine.
The base for mounting a wind turbine is about 50 ft in diameter, and typically anywhere from 4 to 11ft thick. The most difficult part of the pour is the curing process of such a thick slab.
The entire machine (blades included) weighs in at around 185 tons. Erecting them makes use of a crane or helicopter.
Source: General Electric
and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of glass fiber,
No. the entire machine weighs about 185 tons, including blades.
and the hard-to-earth rare earth neodym, praseodym and dysprosium.
Not used.
Each of the three shovels weighs 81,000 pounds and has a life span of 15 to 20 years, then they must be replaced. We can't recycle used rotor leaves.
The blades are not recyclable per se, but people have used old blades for some unusual purposes. Most are just cut up and discarded. The tower is metal and is recyclable. The generator and housing contains both recyclable and non recyclable components.
These technologies may have their place, but you have to look beyond the myth of emission freedom.
Quite right. This is especially true regarding EV's.
“Going Green” may sound like a utopic ideal, but if you look at the hidden and inconsiderate costs realistic and unbiased, you’ll find that “Going green” is doing more harm to the Earth’s environment than it appears.

Like I said...out of sight, out of mind. The myopic view by 'green' advocates is rather intentional. They must, after all, try to prove their religion infallible.
I'm not against mining, electric vehicles, wind or solar energy. But I show the reality of the situation.
I am against any mandates of them. That is fascism, and there is no other word for it. I am against any subsidies for them. That is communism, and there is no other word for it.
 
Charge times get shorter and shorter. It is not necessary to end oil and nuke, but solar and wind will allow them to be slashed way, way back. Why does cutting it to zero have to be immediate? It does not. In the very long run, fossil fuels will go.

No, they aren't.
Fast charge stations are very hard on the battery, and not all vehicles can make use of them. You will shorten the life the battery considerably by using them. Such stations are also quite rare.

Solar is the most expensive method of generating electricity. Wind is 2nd most expensive. Oil, natural gas, and coal are a LOT cheaper. Even a nuke is a lot cheaper.
Fossils are not used for fuel. Fossils don't burn.
 
No, they aren't.
Fast charge stations are very hard on the battery, and not all vehicles can make use of them. You will shorten the life the battery considerably by using them. Such stations are also quite rare.

Solar is the most expensive method of generating electricity. Wind is 2nd most expensive. Oil, natural gas, and coal are a LOT cheaper. Even a nuke is a lot cheaper.
Fossils are not used for fuel. Fossils don't burn.

They sure as fuck are.
Cost of oil does not include its pollution and damage to our health. The externalities are enormous. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/hidden-costs-fossil-fuels
 
Capacitors that can capture and store the energy long enough to store it in batteries and mass storage?

Capacitors only store a charge while the charge is applied. Turn off the power, and a capacitor discharges in 5 time constants varying by size.

KwWAWtvF68pA72hZXdAdaBTpHHCloaDlAikj0jL82enFCf7WvMCWXw-SQAoyYdFhNSZEJcSvdXBMoklhYUrx8I1Yzwb5sD9N-1i-eRpK_n5zlZGrzjUG7me5aCJ8YIl690rF5ZKg8lb8DExsHklzRiUeED4Vc9zgpSJSxaKk3lsfUERuowJQ96e_67TkwZoFGbfgGB2KU-wxInlw29j_8fQvJcFETmMhy5eh1myRkqz1fjYhLZwG_atcLYWqw7VmNllG5aagoNYmw5RD3JitkB9_pA=w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu


For a really big capacitor this might take all of tens of seconds...
 
This thread is wrong. We claim to be energy independent now. Some say we import a small amount. Alternative energy can supply a lot more than that. How much would we be importing without alternative energy? Can rightys understand how much more we would be relying on foreign producers if we did not have green energy? https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/d...energy sources,generated in the United States. You should be thankful we have it.

About 4% more than we are right now. Wind and solar don't contribute that much to the US grid right now due to their gross inefficiency.
 
This thread is wrong. We claim to be energy independent now. Some say we import a small amount. Alternative energy can supply a lot more than that. How much would we be importing without alternative energy? Can rightys understand how much more we would be relying on foreign producers if we did not have green energy? https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/d...energy sources,generated in the United States. You should be thankful we have it.

Solar power is the most expensive method of generating electricity. It's piddle power.
Wind comes at 2nd most expensive. It's piddle power.

Oil is renewable.
Natural gas is renewable.
Coal is unknown, but there is plenty of it.

All are far cheaper than solar or wind. Even a nuke is cheaper.
 
Solar power is the most expensive method of generating electricity. It's piddle power.
Wind comes at 2nd most expensive. It's piddle power.

Oil is renewable.
Natural gas is renewable.
Coal is unknown, but there is plenty of it.

All are far cheaper than solar or wind. Even a nuke is cheaper.

It's impossible to reason with the likes of Nutberg, they are totally impervious to logic and scientific argument.
However there are some on the Left that are more rational and able to learn from past mistakes.

Bhaskar Sunkara is the founding editor of Jacobin, a socialist magazine, and author of The Socialist Manifesto: The Case for Radical Politics in an Era of Extreme Inequality. He is also an unlikely advocate for nuclear energy.

In a new article for The Guardian, Sunkara draws on Environmental Progress research which found that, in its first full month without Indian Point nuclear power plant, New York’s carbon emissions from in-state electricity generation rose 35 percent over the state’s pre-covid shutdown levels.

The same analysis found that the carbon intensity of New York’s electricity, the amount of carbon dioxide emissions per unit of electricity, rose 46 percent. And the share of electricity from renewables, including hydroelectric dams, actually declined between 2019 and 2021.

Sunkara’s article comes at a time when a growing number of progressives, socialists, and Democrats are speaking out for nuclear power. A few weeks ago, Emmet Penney, a founding member of Santa Fe’s Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) chapter, noted that “Nuclear plants bring wealth and meaning to their host communities” and, in a turn of phrase that elicited strongly positive responses from readers, Penney added, “They are American industrial cathedrals.”

Part of the reason for growing progressive support for nuclear is because of the research and advocacy of pro-nuclear organizations including Environmental Progress, which has forced renewable energy advocates, and now the industry itself, to admit that solar panels and wind turbines do not substitute for fossil fuels.

A new global study by a new renewable energy industry coalition finds that, over the last decade, the share of energy from fossil fuels was nearly unchanged, going from 80.3% to 80.2%. The reason is because, as my colleagues and I have documented over the last five years, unreliable, weather-dependent energies can’t replace reliable energies.

EP’s has done ground-breaking research on decarbonization since our founding in 2016. Environmental Progress in 2017 found that there was no correlation between solar or wind and the “carbon intensity” of energy — CO2 emissions per unit of energy — at an aggregated level.

By contrast, the deployment of nuclear plants and hydro-electric dams was strongly correlated with declining carbon intensity of energy. Why? Because both are reliable, and can thus replace coal and nat gas plants, where solar panels and wind turbines cannot. They can only operate alongside fossil fuels.

One year later, in 2018, Environmental Progress found that California and Germany could have mostly or completely decarbonized their electricity sectors had their investments in renewables been used for new nuclear instead.

“Environmental Progress,” wrote New York Times columnist Eduardo Porter, “estimated what California’s power sector would look like had the opposition from antinuclear forces — including Governor Jerry Brown — not undone the state’s deployment of nuclear energy, starting in the 1970s.”

Noted Porter, “The power from San Onofre and the Rancho Seco nuclear generation station near Sacramento, both now shuttered, added to that from the never-built Sundesert nuclear plant in the Mojave Desert and three planned-but-not-built units at Diablo Canyon on the state’s central coast, would add a total of 77,000 gigawatt-hours of zero-carbon power to California’s supply.

“Only 27 percent of the power produced in California would come from fossil sources, other things remaining equal, as opposed to 66 percent today. And carbon emissions from power generation would be only 40 percent of what they are today.”

And, as I told the United States Senate a few weeks ago, adding weather-dependent solar and wind to electrical grids diverted money away from reliable energy sources, namely nuclear and natural gas plants, which could have prevented the deadly and costly blackouts in California and Texas.

Read more: https://www.eurasiareview.com/22062021-finally-they-admit-renewables-dont-replace-fossil-fuels-oped/
 
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This thread is wrong. We claim to be energy independent now. Some say we import a small amount. Alternative energy can supply a lot more than that. How much would we be importing without alternative energy? Can rightys understand how much more we would be relying on foreign producers if we did not have green energy? https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/d...energy sources,generated in the United States. You should be thankful we have it.

You're an idiot!! Unreliables do not replace fossil fuels they only displace it. Sadly you're way too stupid to understand that.
 
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