Zelensky rejected peace offer days before Russian offensive – WSJ

Zelensky rejected peace offer days before Russian offensive – WSJ
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That's the flaw in NATO's underpinning ' All for one, one for all ' nineteenth-century romantic philosophy. Each member of the NATO gang wrongly assumes that it is more powerful than it is.
The whole NATO edifice collapses when faced with a nuclear-armed adversary. America- the gang leader- is not going to thermo-nuclear fry itself for the aspirations of some big-mouthed micro-state that wants to threaten the big boy.
 
Gin Saké said:
How is NATO using Ukraine? Did NATO hold a syringe of novichok to Putin's throat and force him to invade Ukraine?
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No- but NATO bluffed and lost. The loss of Ukraine , however, was considered acceptable in the game-plan of separating Russia and the Europeans commercially. We'll see how that pans out.
 
anonymoose said:
Exactly. Uk is a sovereign country, not part of some Greater Russia as Putin seems to think.
Russia had a history of subjugating East Europe. I can see why so many of those former Soviet states would want to be a member of NATO.
Uk did not attack or even threaten Russia, NATO has not attacked or threatened Russia . Now Libya, that's a different story.
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I understand what you are saying and you are correct. I just think that a lot of people are trying to look at this situation through as non partisan eyes as possible, which in fact is a good thing. When people do that they wonder why the Cuban missile crisis went down the way it did if all we care about is a nations sovereign right to do as it wishes. The Invasion of Grenada, the arming of the rebels in Nicaragua, Panama, the Monroe doctrine itself. It seems like we the US is very big on countries having their sovereign right to do as they choose as a country,............as long as they align with us that is.
 
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As a U.S citizen I actually like that most of the old Warsaw pact countries are now NATO members. Of course I do,...its good for our security and the wests security. But If I were Russian? It would make me feel pretty frikkin surrounded and cut off. Just sayin..
 
Stone said:
As a U.S citizen I actually like that most of the old Warsaw pact countries are now NATO members. Of course I do,...its good for our security and the wests security. But If I were Russian? It would make me feel pretty frikkin surrounded and cut off. Just sayin..
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But NATO is NO THREAT to Russia. Now if I were Putin…
Does China feel threatened by SEATO?
I don’t know about Russian mentality but Putin seems to be extremely insecure. Maybe it’s short man syndrome.
 
anonymoose said:
But NATO is NO THREAT to Russia. Now if I were Putin…
Does China feel threatened by SEATO?
I don’t know about Russian mentality but Putin seems to be extremely insecure. Maybe it’s short man syndrome.
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SEATO doesnt exist anymore
Putin is constantly ridiculed for it's redlines. Lavrov sent 3 letters to Biden who laughed them off
I tell Americans to think of the Cuban missile crisis, and that wasn't even an army capable of conquest
NATO surrounding Russia is the same dynamic - intolerable for Russia,and Uk was/is a defacto NATO state
 
Stone said:
As a U.S citizen I actually like that most of the old Warsaw pact countries are now NATO members. Of course I do,...its good for our security and the wests security. But If I were Russian? It would make me feel pretty frikkin surrounded and cut off. Just sayin..
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then it's not "good for our security" if it causes Russia to (correctly) feel that way.

It's needless agression and counterproductive to co-existence
 
Primavera said:
I'm sure that Russia had control of the codes for strategic nukes but not for tactical battlefield ones.
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I dont think Ukraine had tactical nukes by the time of the Budapest Memorandum
as far as I know only Russia and NATO have them, and Russia mnay more
 
anonymoose said:
Exactly. Uk is a sovereign country, not part of some Greater Russia as Putin seems to think.
Russia had a history of subjugating East Europe. I can see why so many of those former Soviet states would want to be a member of NATO.
Uk did not attack or even threaten Russia, NATO has not attacked or threatened Russia . Now Libya, that's a different story.
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Ukraine was historically part of Russia. Ukraine is split loyslties however to this day
And that allowed it to be a "buffer state"

The problem started when NATO went in to change it to a defacto NATO state
 
Stone said:
As a U.S citizen I actually like that most of the old Warsaw pact countries are now NATO members. Of course I do,...its good for our security and the wests security. But If I were Russian? It would make me feel pretty frikkin surrounded and cut off. Just sayin..
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Oh, those poor things.

Sovereign nations can decide their own alliances. The Ukraine has shown no aggression. This war is on one man - no one else.
 
Jarod said:
Good for him, Putin can’t be trusted, and Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
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you mean the USA and Germany could not have "been trusted" to give uk security?
That means the whole prospect of peace was impossible without Uk being part of NATO
Yet NATO has always said no to UK membership for a variety of reasons
 
anatta said:
SEATO doesnt exist anymore
Putin is constantly ridiculed for it's redlines. Lavrov sent 3 letters to Biden who laughed them off
I tell Americans to think of the Cuban missile crisis, and that wasn't even an army capable of conquest
NATO surrounding Russia is the same dynamic - intolerable for Russia,and Uk was/is a defacto NATO state
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I stand corrected re SEATO.
Cuban missile crisis?
1. We dismantled our nukes in turkey.
2. We did not invade Cuba.
 
anatta said:
Ukraine was historically part of Russia. Ukraine is split loyslties however to this day
And that allowed it to be a "buffer state"

The problem started when NATO went in to change it to a defacto NATO state
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I seriously doubt they’re split now. If they were wouldn’t Uk be in a civil war?
 
anonymoose said:
I seriously doubt they’re split now. If they were wouldn’t Uk be in a civil war?
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Uk IS in a civil war -Donbas.
It cannot be overstated the east is pro-Russia

Karkiv might be an exception, but the LDNR have been in a long protacted war against Kyiv
 
anatta said:
dYaGin (RT)
Zelensky, see where your NATO desire has led Ukraine? Devastated cities, military and defence infrastructures wiped out, millions of citizens turned into refugees across the globe yet you refused a peace offer before the war.
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Go fuck yourself, Putin lover. Yes, it's Ukraines fault. Fuck you. I guess you care about atrocities only when it's White People that are being killed.
 
anatta said:
German chancellor Olaf Scholz had offered Volodymyr Zelensky a chance for peace just days before the launch of the Russian military offensive, but the Ukrainian president turned it down, the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) has reported.

Scholz had made what the US outlet described as “one last push for a settlement between Moscow and Kiev” less than a week before the Russian forces were sent into Ukraine on February 24.

The chancellor told Zelensky in Munich on February 19 “that Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia,” the paper writes. The daily also claims that “the pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security.”

However, Zelensky rejected the offer to make the concession and avoid confrontation, saying that “[Russia’s President Vladimir] Putin couldn’t be trusted to uphold such an agreement and that most Ukrainians wanted to join NATO,” the WSJ reports, without revealing its sources for the information.

“His answer left German officials worried that the chances of peace were fading,” the report points out.

Scholz and Zelensky did meet on that day on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference, at which each delivered an address.
https://www.rt.com/news/553213-zelensky-scholz-ukraine-peace/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/vladim...ineand-how-the-west-mishandled-it-11648826461
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First I've heard the German chancellor is in running things in Russia.
 
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