CIA Releases Documents Fmr. Vice President Cheney Requested Be Made Public

[PostmodernProphet]

C If it is something that would make extremists give up info, it would fall into the torture category.

and there you have it folks....screw the definition of the Geneva convention, screw every other definition of torture.....we finally have an admission that the left's new definition is everything from "asking a terrorist for information", on up......

 

[Onceler]

I do not assume to the king...I merely aspire to prove your failure....

It isn't working.

Between "Iraq wasn't a mistake" and "this isn't torture," you're really digging yourself a hole...

 

[PostmodernProphet]

the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental...

Would it qualify as mental suffering?

telling a liberal he's wrong would likely qualify as the affliction of mental suffering.....

And how do we know the wires weren't attached? Because the people who were doing this tell us they weren't?

at least they were there....you're telling me they WERE attached and you've been no where near Iraq.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

It isn't working.

Between "Iraq wasn't a mistake" and "this isn't torture," you're really digging yourself a hole...

I need someplace to put you when the debate is finished....

 

[WinterBorn]

and there you have it folks....screw the definition of the Geneva convention, screw every other definition of torture.....we finally have an admission that the left's new definition is everything from "asking a terrorist for information", on up......

Oh please, that is not what I said and it is taken out of context. You already tried to make it as though I said "because this is what conservatives do" when I said nothing of the kind.

If you want to have an actual discussion about the issue then we can. If you are going to spout bullshit, misquote and try to make up things that I never said, we are wasting bandwidth.

The picture shows a man standing on a box, under a hood with wires coming out and going up to the conduits. And you want us to believe that nothing wrong was done to this man???

 

[WinterBorn]

telling a liberal he's wrong would likely qualify as the affliction of mental suffering.....



at least they were there....you're telling me they WERE attached and you've been no where near Iraq.....

Did I tell you they WERE? Or are you just making up shit again?

I am not talking about liberal v/s conservative, despite your best efforts to make it about that.

I am talking about whether or not what was done to this man qualifies as torture. And I think, based on the picture, that it certainly warrants an investigation.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Oh please, that is not what I said and it is taken out of context. You already tried to make it as though I said "because this is what conservatives do" when I said nothing of the kind.

If you want to have an actual discussion about the issue then we can. If you are going to spout bullshit, misquote and try to make up things that I never said, we are wasting bandwidth.

The picture shows a man standing on a box, under a hood with wires coming out and going up to the conduits. And you want us to believe that nothing wrong was done to this man???

are you trying to make us believe that the wires were hot and they took the picture just before they fried him?......in the same post as accusing me of making things up?.....

and people wonder why I say liberals are idiots....

 

[WinterBorn]

are you trying to make us believe that the wires were hot and they took the picture just before they fried him?......in the same post as accusing me of making things up?.....

and people wonder why I say liberals are idiots....

Do you have any idea what a discussion or a debate is?

I said nothing of the kind. And please don't make up shit, the wires could have been hot and not fried anything.

If you want to call someone an idiot, I would suggest you start with the one jumping to wild conclusions and trying to invent things that were said.

Now, would you like to discuss this or will you continue the wild accusations and baseless bullshit?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I will discuss this is you are honest in your statements and stop denying what you say every other post....otherwise, don't waste my time.....now, you assume this was torture because the wires must have been hot, or you assume it was torture because it doesn't matter that the wires weren't hot.....which is it?.....if it's the later, stop bringing up assumptions that you have no evidence to support.....just admit you think it's torture even though the wires weren't hot....

 

[christiefan915]

you're the one that chose the picture illustrating what you felt was wrong at Abu Graib.....as I recall, the media didn't even get involved there until after charges had been brought against the people who did what was wrong at Abu Graib....
but wait a sec.....I find it amazing that I am debating in a vacuum.....I ask all these questions and nobody ever answers them......does anyone else find that strange......perhaps it was a problem with my hearing....I will try again....

do you think making a guy stand on a box with a hood over his head is torture?....would it be better if they made him stand on a chair?......

Is this better?

 

[charver]

When will people realise that what went on at Abu Ghraib was just a simple case of a little rough and tumble.

So there were some funny photographs, deaths in custody, prosecutions and official reports which admitted torture but, i ask you, does that amount to an abuse of basic human rights?

When will you Liberals realise that the sooner we all shut up about these things the quicker people will learn to love America again?

 

[WinterBorn]

I will discuss this is you are honest in your statements and stop denying what you say every other post....otherwise, don't waste my time.....now, you assume this was torture because the wires must have been hot, or you assume it was torture because it doesn't matter that the wires weren't hot.....which is it?.....if it's the later, stop bringing up assumptions that you have no evidence to support.....just admit you think it's torture even though the wires weren't hot....

I don't see that I have denied saying anything.

I certainly didn't say anything resembling:

"we just have to assume that they tortured him because that's what conservatives do, right?..."

or

"we finally have an admission that the left's new definition is everything from "asking a terrorist for information", on up..."


And when you said "you're telling me they WERE attached and you've been no where near Iraq...." I had never said the WERE. I was just pointing out the possibilities and questioning whether you take the word of the person you would be accusing of torture.






I have not denied saying anything I actually said. But you have tried to make shit up that I said.

Now if we are going to discuss, try and stick to what I actually say.

When I brought up the possibilities of reasons it could be torture it was in response to you saying "do you think making a guy stand on a box with a hood over his head is torture?....would it be better if they made him stand on a chair?...".

I don't know enough about the situation to actually assume anything. But there are certainly signs that would make me suspicious that the man was tortured.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Is this better?

what do you believe these photos show has been done?.....

 

[PostmodernProphet]

When I brought up the possibilities of reasons it could be torture it was in response to you saying "do you think making a guy stand on a box with a hood over his head is torture?....would it be better if they made him stand on a chair?...".

that is precisely the problem.....you keep saying torture occurred because you can think up possibilities of torture....I am talking about the evidence presented instead.....is making a guy stand on a box with a hood over his head torture?...."yes, because I can imagine that they ran electrical current through his body".....dude, running electrical current through his body WOULD BE torture....that isn't the issue.....the issue is whether making him stand on a box is torture....

you sit there and say conservatives are wrong because they won't admit making a guy stand on a box is torture, when the reason you think it's torture is because you think they ran electrical current through him......your conclusion has nothing to do with the box or the standing....do you understand?.....

it's the same with Christie....she sees a soldier giving the thumb's up next to a corpse, so she assumes they tortured the man to death.....she thinks I am wrong to not be against torture because I am not incensed by her "evidence" of torture.....but in truth, you can't possibly torture a dead person, thus her picture isn't evidence of torture at all......

 

[WinterBorn]

that is precisely the problem.....you keep saying torture occurred because you can think up possibilities of torture....I am talking about the evidence presented instead.....is making a guy stand on a box with a hood over his head torture?...."yes, because I can imagine that they ran electrical current through his body".....dude, running electrical current through his body WOULD BE torture....that isn't the issue.....the issue is whether making him stand on a box is torture....

you sit there and say conservatives are wrong because they won't admit making a guy stand on a box is torture, when the reason you think it's torture is because you think they ran electrical current through him......your conclusion has nothing to do with the box or the standing....do you understand?.....

No, I answered your question about whether making him stand on a box was torture. And with the evidence presented I think further investigation would be warranted.


"you sit there and say conservatives are wrong ..." WTF? There you go again.

Show me where I said a single word about conservatives. I didn't. You are trying to portray my conversation as anti-conservative. But I have not said that at all.

I would question whether it is torture because there are several things that point to that in the picture. You asked if making him stand on a box was torture, and I responded that it depended on the situation.

 

[WinterBorn]

that is precisely the problem.....you keep saying torture occurred because you can think up possibilities of torture....I am talking about the evidence presented instead.....is making a guy stand on a box with a hood over his head torture?...."yes, because I can imagine that they ran electrical current through his body".....dude, running electrical current through his body WOULD BE torture....that isn't the issue.....the issue is whether making him stand on a box is torture....

you sit there and say conservatives are wrong because they won't admit making a guy stand on a box is torture, when the reason you think it's torture is because you think they ran electrical current through him......your conclusion has nothing to do with the box or the standing....do you understand?.....

it's the same with Christie....she sees a soldier giving the thumb's up next to a corpse, so she assumes they tortured the man to death.....she thinks I am wrong to not be against torture because I am not incensed by her "evidence" of torture.....but in truth, you can't possibly torture a dead person, thus her picture isn't evidence of torture at all......

PMP, if you want to argue about what I said, then please only discuss what I actually said. I did not say that the man had been definitally been tortured.

 

[Canceled2]

Right on Mr. Panetta!

Now Public: Memos That Cheney Says Demonstrate Harsh Interrogation Tactics Worked to Thwart Terrorism

By KIRIT RADIA and JASON RYAN
August 24, 2009

The CIA released the documents today that former Vice President Dick Cheney requested earlier this year in an attempt to prove his assertion that using enhanced interrogation techniques on terror detainees saved U.S. lives.

The documents back up the Bush administration's claims that intelligence gleaned from captured terror suspects had thwarted terrorist attacks, but the visible portions of the heavily redacted reports do not indicate whether such information was obtained as a result of controversial interrogation techniques, such as waterboarding.

Cheney's initial request in the spring that the documents be declassified was rejected by the CIA. Lawmakers derided his claims that the harsh interrogation techniques were necessary. Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., the chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a May 27 speech that "those classified documents say nothing about numbers of lives saved, nor do the documents connect acquisition of valuable intelligence to the use of abusive techniques."

The report says intelligence from detainees has resulted in the thwarting of terror plans.

Detainee reporting has helped thwart a number of al-Qaeda plots to attack targets in the West and elsewhere. Not only have detainees reported on potential targets and techniques that al-Qaeda operational planners have considered but arrests also have disrupted attack plans in progress," the report said.

It describes how interrogations of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed yielded information about al-Qaeda's attempts to obtain anthrax and crash commercial airplanes into London's Heathrow Airport. It says that other detainees, when confronted with information learned from Mohammed, revealed more about the plots and members of al-Qaeda.

The CIA report states that Mohammed "dramatically expanded our universe of knowledge on al-Qaeda plots … [and] leads that assisted directly in the capture of other terrorists including Jemaah Islamiyah leader Hambali."

The report on detainee information says that information learned from interrogations of al-Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah revealed plots against "targets abroad and in the United States – including the White House and other U.S. symbols."

Zubaydah was the first senior member of the group to be captured in March of 2002.

The report describes gaining "invaluable insights" into "al-Qaeda's current organization, the personalities of its key members, and al-Qaeda's decision-making process. His reporting has contributed to our understanding of the enemy, how al-Qaeda members interact with each other, how they are organized, and what their personal networks are like."


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=8403694&page=1

LOL

Obama tried to toss Leon Panetta under the bus, looks like he is coming out swinging.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8398902

 

[PostmodernProphet]

PMP, if you want to argue about what I said, then please only discuss what I actually said.

what's the point when you simply deny you said it....are you now going to say you don't believe anyone at Abu Graib was tortured.......

 

[christiefan915]

that is precisely the problem.....you keep saying torture occurred because you can think up possibilities of torture....I am talking about the evidence presented instead.....is making a guy stand on a box with a hood over his head torture?...."yes, because I can imagine that they ran electrical current through his body".....dude, running electrical current through his body WOULD BE torture....that isn't the issue.....the issue is whether making him stand on a box is torture....

you sit there and say conservatives are wrong because they won't admit making a guy stand on a box is torture, when the reason you think it's torture is because you think they ran electrical current through him......your conclusion has nothing to do with the box or the standing....do you understand?.....

it's the same with Christie....she sees a soldier giving the thumb's up next to a corpse, so she assumes they tortured the man to death.....she thinks I am wrong to not be against torture because I am not incensed by her "evidence" of torture.....but in truth, you can't possibly torture a dead person, thus her picture isn't evidence of torture at all......

Either you're playing dumb because of partisanship or else you're totally uninformed about the events of Abu Ghraib.

The "corpse" you refer to so coldly is Manadel al-Jamadi. He was tortured to death at Abu Ghraib in November 2003 and the execrable charles graner had the body packed in ice so he and his repulsive followers could take "thumbs-up" pictures with it. I never said a dead person was tortured. I showed that the person in the picture was tortured to death. Try and discern the difference.

"The cause of his death was not generally known until February 17, 2005, when it was revealed that he had died after a fruitless half-hour interrogation, during which he was suspended from a barred window by his wrists, which were bound behind his back. News reports introduced the term "Palestinian hanging," a modern name for the strappado, a technique used since at least the 16th century. Associated Press correspondent Seth Hettena reported that 30 minutes after beginning his questioning of the prisoner, the CIA interrogator Mark Swanner called for guards to reposition al-Jamadi, who he believed was "playing possum" as he slouched with his arms stretched behind him. But the guards found otherwise:

"After we found out he was dead, they were nervous," Specialist Dennis Stevanus said of the CIA interrogator and translator. "They didn't know what the hell to do."[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manadel_al-Jamadi

 

[TuTu Monroe]

Either you're playing dumb because of partisanship or else you're totally uninformed about the events of Abu Ghraib.

The "corpse" you refer to so coldly is Manadel al-Jamadi. He was tortured to death at Abu Ghraib in November 2003 and the execrable charles graner had the body packed in ice so he and his repulsive followers could take "thumbs-up" pictures with it. I never said a dead person was tortured. I showed that the person in the picture was tortured to death. Try and discern the difference.

"The cause of his death was not generally known until February 17, 2005, when it was revealed that he had died after a fruitless half-hour interrogation, during which he was suspended from a barred window by his wrists, which were bound behind his back. News reports introduced the term "Palestinian hanging," a modern name for the strappado, a technique used since at least the 16th century. Associated Press correspondent Seth Hettena reported that 30 minutes after beginning his questioning of the prisoner, the CIA interrogator Mark Swanner called for guards to reposition al-Jamadi, who he believed was "playing possum" as he slouched with his arms stretched behind him. But the guards found otherwise:

"After we found out he was dead, they were nervous," Specialist Dennis Stevanus said of the CIA interrogator and translator. "They didn't know what the hell to do."[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manadel_al-Jamadi

The last I heard the people who did this are in prison.