CIA Releases Documents Fmr. Vice President Cheney Requested Be Made Public

WinterBorn said:
Perhaps those people who have lived under the despots and horrific regimes we have put in place and supported would disagree with you. Perhaps the people of nations we have ignored would disagree with you.

We have done a lot of good. But to claim that Charver's premise is the opposite of reality is to ignore decades of our history.
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The US can't be the world's policeman, as our numerous mistakes have proven. But to discount the freedom that has been won for hundreds of millions is disingenuous at best. *shrug*
 
Southern Man said:
The US can't be the world's policeman, as our numerous mistakes have proven. But to discount the freedom that has been won for hundreds of millions is disingenuous at best. *shrug*
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I did not discount the freedoms we have won. I did not discount anything done by the USA.

You, however, discounted all our mistakes and meddling when you claimed Charver's premise was 180 degrees from reality.

It is clearly not 180 degrees from reality.
 
Southern Man said:
Not the socialists and commies, like you.
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You'd be surprised, SM.

Even staunch communist types admire the continuation of the work they started in Afghanistan and many of the old boys down the Lenin social club are often to be overheard praising the CIA's secret torture chambers.

If you ever visit i'm sure Ivan will slap you on the back, shake your hand and shout you a beetroot.
 
WinterBorn said:
I did not discount the freedoms we have won. I did not discount anything done by the USA.

You, however, discounted all our mistakes and meddling when you claimed Charver's premise was 180 degrees from reality.

It is clearly not 180 degrees from reality.
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It's close enough to 180 to round to it; probably 175 or so. That would be an odd expression: 'you're 175 degrees from reality'. It seems you're more intent on finding some minuscule fault with my argument rather than having a political conversation. *shrug*
 
charver said:
You'd be surprised, SM.

Even staunch communist types admire the continuation of the work they started in Afghanistan and many of the old boys down the Lenin social club are often to be overheard praising the CIA's secret torture chambers.

If you ever visit i'm sure Ivan will slap you on the back, shake your hand and shout you a beetroot.
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Not at all. Now that we have an honest-to-God socialist in the White House, I'm sure the commies are very happy. *shrug*
 
Southern Man said:
It's close enough to 180 to round to it; probably 175 or so. That would be an odd expression: 'you're 175 degrees from reality'. It seems you're more intent on finding some minuscule fault with my argument rather than having a political conversation. *shrug*
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Not at all. There are millions of people out there who have had to suffer their entire lives because of our meddling. There are millions of people who have had their lived screwed up royally from our meddling. I am as patriotic as anyone, but to ignore the facts of Charver's premise is dishonest.

For some people, having the opportunity to wipe out the USA would be a jsutifiable act.

His question to you was simple. "So if an unnamed country despatched the entire population of the United States, by some fiendish means, and used the justification "it saved billions of civilian lives in the long run", that would hold some water with you?"
 
Southern Man said:
Not at all. Now that we have an honest-to-God socialist in the White House, I'm sure the commies are very happy. *shrug*
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They are very much looking forward to nationalising the Yadkin valley and establishing the Vasily Chuikov Collective Farm (sub-unit 4a).

We anticipate a heroic turnip crop next year.
 
charver said:
They are very much looking forward to nationalising the Yadkin valley and establishing the Vasily Chuikov Collective Farm (sub-unit 4a).

We anticipate a heroic turnip crop next year.
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Sorry, we don't have farming capabilities anymore. All we can do is print money and use it to buy wholesale from the Chinese.
 
Southern Man said:
Yeah- many of them are called "terrorists." *shrug*
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Nice way to ignore the bulk of my post.

Are you trying to say that there are NOT millions of people who have had their lives adversely effected by US foriegn policy? I am not talking about terrorists, I am talking about innocent people. You know, the kind you were taught to protect?
 
Yurt said:
nothing that has been publicly released proves torture, to say so is flat out untrue
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