Putin's propagandists hit the panic button

Cypress said:
It's possible Putin just won't give a sh+t.

But Russia is not North Korea. They still have access to the internet, and I don't think turning Kiev into a smouldering pile of rubble, as was done in Grozny, could be kept hidden forever. Russian soldiers are also ultimately going to tell their family and friends what they saw.
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I have a lot of concerns about Chernobyl in particular but also the other nuclear power plants. If the Russians fuck that up and radiation is released, I suspect that the world -- and the NATO countries -- will see it as an attack by Russia. They'll have no choice but to go in then. Of course, the civilians will pay the price as always.
 
Cypress said:
It's possible Putin just won't give a sh+t.

But Russia is not North Korea. They still have access to the internet, and I don't think turning Kiev into a smouldering pile of rubble, as was done in Grozny, could be kept hidden forever. Russian soldiers are also ultimately going to tell their family and friends what they saw.
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That's what sane minds know. trump learned from Putin a long time ago that responding with 'fake news', 'witch hunt', or 'hoax' pays dividends as time goes by.

My Ukrainian friends, like many immigrants from Communist nations, are staunch Republicans. All Fox News has to do is use the word 'Socialism' and they eat it up.

In '16, I heard the term 'crooked Hillary' all day long from Boris. Most of the time it was in jest, but he was programmed rather easily.

Putin has a friend in Fox News, although that won't help in Russia.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I have a lot of concerns about Chernobyl in particular but also the other nuclear power plants. If the Russians fuck that up and radiation is released, I suspect that the world -- and the NATO countries -- will see it as an attack by Russia. They'll have no choice but to go in then. Of course, the civilians will pay the price as always.
Click to expand...

Putin sent an armored convoy through Chernobyl to get to Kiev. It would suck to be a soldier in his army.
 
Hello Cypress,

Cypress said:
At this point, I wonder if Putin can even take Kiev, without reducing it to rubble with indiscriminate artillery fire, as was done to Grozny.
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Well that's the thing. Ukrainian resolve is absolute. Russia is going to have to utterly destroy Ukraine to take it, but then what does that leave them with? The massive expense of trying to rebuild a destroyed country, piled upon their own massive expense of dealing with all their own military losses, coupled with trying to do all of that under crippling sanctions.

At this point, the only thing I can see which will get Russia out of this is replacing Putin.

As long as he is the president, sanctions will likely continue.

Why would anyone want to do legitimate business with Putin ever again?

It's not possible. He screwed the pooch. You can't erase that by stopping.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Cypress,



Well that's the thing. Ukrainian resolve is absolute. Russia is going to have to utterly destroy Ukraine to take it, but then what does that leave them with? The massive expense of trying to rebuild a destroyed country, piled upon their own massive expense of dealing with all their own military losses, coupled with trying to do all of that under crippling sanctions.

At this point, the only thing I can see which will get Russia out of this is replacing Putin.

As long as he is the president, sanctions will likely continue.

Why would anyone want to do legitimate business with Putin ever again?

It's not possible. He screwed the pooch. You can't erase that by stopping.
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I remember corresponding with people in Russia before the war who wrote that if Putin I invaded, it would fundamentally undermine the Russian economy for decades.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I have a lot of concerns about Chernobyl in particular but also the other nuclear power plants. If the Russians fuck that up and radiation is released, I suspect that the world -- and the NATO countries -- will see it as an attack by Russia. They'll have no choice but to go in then. Of course, the civilians will pay the price as always.
Click to expand...

That would be a terrible scenario.

No one was hurt more by the radioactive release from Chernobyl in 1986 than Belarus. If Putin does not ensure safeguards are maintained at Chernobyl, his good ally Belarus stands to take the biggest hit.
 
Matt Dillon said:
Putin sent an armored convoy through Chernobyl to get to Kiev. It would suck to be a soldier in his army.
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It would, to be untrained soldier sent on what you believe is a training mission to find out you are killing Russians and Ukrainians. It would be hell.
 
Hello Cypress,

Cypress said:
I remember corresponding with people in Russia before the war who wrote that if Putin I invaded, it would fundamentally undermine the Russian economy for decades.
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Putin has now done things which cannot be erased. He was warned about the sanctions. He ignored the warnings. Now he has nothing. His pre-war image of all talk no action has been erased. Now he is a monster. Those sanctioning him and Russia cannot be expected to forget what has now happened and just go back the way it was. You can't go back after something like this. It can never be like it was after this.

I think the Putin days are numbered. He needs to go.
 
Hello Cypress,

Cypress said:
That would be a terrible scenario.

No one was hurt more by the radioactive release from Chernobyl in 1986 than Belarus. If Putin does not ensure safeguards are maintained at Chernobyl, his good ally Belarus stands to take the biggest hit.
Click to expand...

Putin tried to ignore things he should have paid attention to. Absolute power went to his head. It was the downfall of Mussolini, Hitler, Trump, and soon Putin, too. He lost respect for himself and now it is only a matter of time until his following falls apart just as it happens to all of them.
 
Althea said:
That's what sane minds know. trump learned from Putin a long time ago that responding with 'fake news', 'witch hunt', or 'hoax' pays dividends as time goes by.

My Ukrainian friends, like many immigrants from Communist nations, are staunch Republicans. All Fox News has to do is use the word 'Socialism' and they eat it up.

In '16, I heard the term 'crooked Hillary' all day long from Boris. Most of the time it was in jest, but he was programmed rather easily.

Putin has a friend in Fox News, although that won't help in Russia.
Click to expand...

My father was a staunch Republican, and I think some of it had to do with his experience with Communism.

On the flipside, my aunt was a staunch member of the Canadian liberal party.

Outside the bubble of Fox News, many Americans are not aware that some of the biggest opponents of Soviet Communism were Eastern European liberals, human rights activists, progressives, and labor unions.
 
Cypress said:
My father was a staunch Republican, and I think some of it had to do with his experience with Communism.

On the flipside, my aunt was a staunch member of the Canadian liberal party.

Outside the bubble of Fox News, many Americans are not aware that some of the biggest opponents of Soviet Communism were Eastern European liberals, human rights activists, progressives, and labor unions.
Click to expand...
I find that they automatically reject anything that sounds like what they fled. Again...they turn on the t.v. and Fox has a perfectly polished propaganda machine. The more Fox says 'Socialism', the more they are against common sense programs in this country. I'm not sure what a Soviet Liberal looks like?

I read Ayn Rand when I was 20, and apolitical. I liked her as an author. Not so much as a messiah, the way Teabaggers do. That's a prime example of a person who fled Communism and went off the deep end in her quest to deny any form of govt. being 'good'.

She wrote fantasy. She wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
 
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