Has Biden’s rejection of MiG-29 fighter jets lost the war against Russia?

E

Earl

Well-known member
Has Biden’s rejection of MiG-29 fighter jets lost the war against Russia?

If we do not want Russia eternally threatening its neighbors with war, and the rest of the world with its nuclear arsenal, then we have to stop Vladimir Putin at the earliest opportunity
Sean O'Grady
1 hour ago

It is a depressing thought that such a golden opportunity is being tossed away
(AP)

Is this the moment when Joe Biden lost the war against Russia? The moment when Poland’s MiG-29 fighter jets, delivered indirectly via the US to gallant Ukraine, could have made the vital though marginal difference between peace and war, between subjugation and freedom in Ukraine?

It is a depressing thought that such a golden opportunity is being tossed away because… well, because it might upset the Russians and cause a third world war? But it wouldn’t, because the Russians know they’d lose, and for that reason a third world war wouldn’t happen.

It is the seemingly forgotten doctrine of collective security and nuclear deterrence that has kept the west safe since the end of the Second World War. President Biden, a dedicated Atlanticist, seems to have mislaid his old Cold War instincts.

If we do not want Russia eternally threatening its neighbors with war, and the rest of the world (and the planet itself) with its nuclear arsenal, then we have to stop Vladimir Putin at the earliest opportunity. We cannot just say “you can have Ukraine, but not another inch” – because he knows we don’t mean it.

If America won’t lead the west in this resistance, and fight for Ukraine, why would they fight for Estonia, Poland… or Germany even? The answer that they are all Nato members means nothing if the calculus is that America doesn’t wish to be involved in foreign wars and has turned isolationist. If Putin miscalculates, and America really is willing to fight for Poland, then we will end up with a third world war anyway.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/biden-mig29-fighter-jets-russia-b2031886.html
 
Has Biden’s rejection of MiG-29 fighter jets lost the war against Russia?
Click to expand...

Hopefully it has shortened it, Ukraine will capitulate without further loss of life, agreement will be reached over the Donbass, the Ukrainian Neo-Nazis will be sent to the ICC and peace will reign- unless NATO starts pushing again.
 
Earl said:
Has Biden’s rejection of MiG-29 fighter jets lost the war against Russia?

If we do not want Russia eternally threatening its neighbors with war, and the rest of the world with its nuclear arsenal, then we have to stop Vladimir Putin at the earliest opportunity
Sean O'Grady
1 hour ago

It is a depressing thought that such a golden opportunity is being tossed away
(AP)

Is this the moment when Joe Biden lost the war against Russia? The moment when Poland’s MiG-29 fighter jets, delivered indirectly via the US to gallant Ukraine, could have made the vital though marginal difference between peace and war, between subjugation and freedom in Ukraine?

It is a depressing thought that such a golden opportunity is being tossed away because… well, because it might upset the Russians and cause a third world war? But it wouldn’t, because the Russians know they’d lose, and for that reason a third world war wouldn’t happen.

It is the seemingly forgotten doctrine of collective security and nuclear deterrence that has kept the west safe since the end of the Second World War. President Biden, a dedicated Atlanticist, seems to have mislaid his old Cold War instincts.

If we do not want Russia eternally threatening its neighbors with war, and the rest of the world (and the planet itself) with its nuclear arsenal, then we have to stop Vladimir Putin at the earliest opportunity. We cannot just say “you can have Ukraine, but not another inch” – because he knows we don’t mean it.

If America won’t lead the west in this resistance, and fight for Ukraine, why would they fight for Estonia, Poland… or Germany even? The answer that they are all Nato members means nothing if the calculus is that America doesn’t wish to be involved in foreign wars and has turned isolationist. If Putin miscalculates, and America really is willing to fight for Poland, then we will end up with a third world war anyway.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/biden-mig29-fighter-jets-russia-b2031886.html
Click to expand...

What state are those MiGs in, are they mothballed or ready to go? They need weapons, fuel and flight maintenance personnel. Unless you are sending the pilots on kamikaze missions.
 
The idea of providing Ukraine with MiGs is great, but not if it is going to involve either the U.S. or NATO as a whole. The last thing we want is a wider war breaking out because Russia sees it as an excuse to go after NATO countries.

Drones sound more plausible.
 
Jack said:
Wouldn't a thousand Drones be the Better Option?
Click to expand...

These planes could have neutralized the 40 mile Russian tank and truck convoy.

They would not be decisive but would slow down Putin's war.

Yes, a thousand drones would be better but who has them and would they give them to the Ukraine?
 
Earl said:
Thise planes could have neutralized the 40 mile Russian tank and truck convoy.

They would not be decisive but would slow down Putin's war.

Yes, a thousand drones would be better but who has them and would they give them to the Ukraine?
Click to expand...

Yes. See. That's the beauty of it. Who has Drones?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
The idea of providing Ukraine with MiGs is great, but not if it is going to involve either the U.S. or NATO as a whole. The last thing we want is a wider war breaking out because Russia sees it as an excuse to go after NATO countries.

Drones sound more plausible.
Click to expand...



Walt for Ukraine Minister of Defense!
 
Earl said:
These planes could have neutralized the 40 mile Russian tank and truck convoy.

They would not be decisive but would slow down Putin's war.

Yes, a thousand drones would be better but who has them and would they give them to the Ukraine?
Click to expand...

So can armored drones. In fact that is what caused the convoy to stall to begin with. Turkish drones.
 
The idea that we can't provoke the Russians who have illegally invaded a smaller country and are targeting civilians...children and infants, because it might provoke them to further aggression rings hollow to those who are fighting and dying in the Ukraine.
 
Damocles said:
So can armored drones. In fact that is what caused the convoy to stall to begin with. Turkish drones.
Click to expand...

Yes...why not buy all the armored drones available in the world and send them to the Ukraine?

Perhaps this is being done but with Biden as CIC, I doubt it.
 
Earl said:
Yes...why not buy all the armored drones available in the world and send them to the Ukraine?

Perhaps this is being done but with Biden as CIC, I doubt it.
Click to expand...

If it looks like his dementia addled hands have provided the tools to Ukraine they fear Russia will retaliate and the war will expand. This is why it cannot look like the US is handing them jets and "every available drone in the world"...
 
Damocles said:
If it looks like his dementia addled hands have provided the tools to Ukraine they fear Russia will retaliate and the war will expand. This is why it cannot look like the US is handing them jets and "every available drone in the world"...
Click to expand...

If we had a strong CIC, he wouldn't give a rat's culo what Russia thought. Do the right thing, protect the Ukraine and let the chips fall where they may.

We are going to have to confront Russia eventually. What we do in the Ukraine affects what will happen in Taiwan.

Avoiding conflict at any cost did not benefit GB.
 
Earl said:
If we had a strong CIC, he wouldn't give a rat's culo what Russia thought. Do the right thing, protect the Ukraine and let the chips fall where they may.

We are going to have to confront Russia eventually.
Click to expand...

I could see that side of thought. However, Brandon appears to be more hesitant. I can also see why the collective brains around him might decide that it is best to be careful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top