Biden administration in Venezuela negotiations

archives said:
So what would be a quicker path to getting more oil into the market now, not in six months or a year, but now?
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Well the moron you guys put into office got us into this mess. We didn't need to be here. We need to go for the longer term fix rather than enriching a terrorist nation or a nation in our backyard that hates up. Drill baby Drill and build pipelines build. If we go all out the XL Pipeline can be ready in 8 months. We need to see if Mexico can increase production also. Unfortunately we are going to have to pay more at the pump for awhile.
 
Damocles said:
Yet another totalitarian regime they want to buy oil from. They hope to make a deal with Venezuela and Iran so they can give our money to folks that hate us rather than pull cleaner oil from the US. (By any measure the US is cleaner than those two when drilling and transporting oil, folks who love the planet should reject the idea that we should give our money to Iran and Venezuela... but they won't because it is political science, not actual science, that matters).
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Venezuela is ok by me, but I have a few issues with buying it from Iran. We should be working on energy independence, and independence from oil itself. I don’t mind temporarily increasing domestic oil production, as long as it comes with significant real efforts to find alternatives.
 
He waited for gas to hit $4 a gallon to tell people to start commuting again

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dukkha said:
Buying oil from Venezuela or Iran deal is a really bad option, compared to buying Russian oil

Iran is a hegemonic sponser of state terrorism.
Maduro has ruined his country, and cause millions of refugees
^existential threats to the US and Israel
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Then its something Biden would definitely do since he has made a career of making really bad foreign policy decisions.
 
Jarod said:
Venezuela is ok by me, but I have a few issues with buying it from Iran. We should be working on energy independence, and independence from oil itself. I don’t mind temporarily increasing domestic oil production, as long as it comes with significant real efforts to find alternatives.
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I absolutely believe we should find and work towards alternatives as well.

Though I am not "all right" with giving Venezuela money. Their government ignores the suffering of the citizens to enrich themselves and supports Russia, etc.

I just don't believe we should fund totalitarian regimes. In this case we already have an embargo against their oil, we should maintain it.
 
Damocles said:
I absolutely believe we should find and work towards alternatives as well.

Though I am not "all right" with giving Venezuela money. Their government ignores the suffering of the citizens to enrich themselves and supports Russia, etc.

I just don't believe we should fund totalitarian regimes. In this case we already have an embargo against their oil, we should maintain it.
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We would not be “giving them money”, we would be buying petroleum. They are a weak and poor country that can’t harm us.
 
Jarod said:
We would not be “giving them money”, we would be buying petroleum. They are a weak and poor country that can’t harm us.
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That's incorrect, earlier in the thread someone accurately described how Venezuela's policies negatively affect the US. But my point isn't that, it is that we need to stop pretending we cannot see the atrocities these leaders commit and treat them as pariah on the world stage. If we do not act we give tacit support for the actions of their governments, and IMHO (and that of a great many Americans) it is not okay to do that.
 
Damocles said:
Yet another totalitarian regime they want to buy oil from. They hope to make a deal with Venezuela and Iran so they can give our money to folks that hate us rather than pull cleaner oil from the US. (By any measure the US is cleaner than those two when drilling and transporting oil, folks who love the planet should reject the idea that we should give our money to Iran and Venezuela... but they won't because it is political science, not actual science, that matters).
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So Iran is a Terrorist State, hates us, and wants Nukes, so now we will fund it? Venezuela says they stand with Russia! What could possibly go wrong!
 
Damocles said:
That's incorrect, earlier in the thread someone accurately described how Venezuela's policies negatively affect the US. But my point isn't that, it is that we need to stop pretending we cannot see the atrocities these leaders commit and treat them as pariah on the world stage. If we do not act we give tacit support for the actions of their governments, and IMHO (and that of a great many Americans) it is not okay to do that.
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Sometimes, we have to make choices. I don’t know if buying Venezuelan oil is good or bad, I know high oil cost hurts poor Americans.
 
Jarod said:
Sometimes, we have to make choices. I don’t know if buying Venezuelan oil is good or bad, I know high oil cost hurts poor Americans.
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If we want to ensure that poor Americans fates are not directly linked to the actions of totalitarians and terrorists the first step is to build energy independence.

I remember when I first advocated for this goal, you and others on the left told me it wouldn't "happen tomorrow" and might "take a decade or more" and I told you that it would be worth it and we should start it now, that we would regret not doing it... that was about 20 years ago when we were all on politics.com forum (that was a forum back in the day for the folks that haven't been part of the forum fam since politics.com days.

I believe that today we know that I was right... If we had done what I suggested back then, then today would not have been such a "difficult choice" for the plagiarist in chief.
 
Damocles said:
If we want to ensure that poor Americans fates are not directly linked to the actions of totalitarians and terrorists the first step is to build energy independence.

I remember when I first advocated for this goal, you and others on the left told me it wouldn't "happen tomorrow" and might "take a decade or more" and I told you that it would be worth it and we should start it now, that we would regret not doing it... that was about 20 years ago when we were all on politics.com forum (that was a forum back in the day for the folks that haven't been part of the forum fam since politics.com days.

I believe that today we know that I was right... If we had done what I suggested back then, then today would not have been such a "difficult choice" for the plagiarist in chief.
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I remember that I agreed with you then, and now. My only addition was that it should not be solely focused on oil.

Today, we know so much more about nuclear energy than we did 30 years ago, it is a viable option.
 
Jarod said:
I remember that I agreed with you then, and now. My only addition was that it should not be solely focused on oil.

Today, we know so much more about nuclear energy than we did 30 years ago, it is a viable option.
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I have never advocated for "solely focused on oil" position. If you truly remembered our conversation you would know that I have always advocated for the kitchen sink approach until we have a viable alternative and that I supported (and support) subsidizing research into that alternative.

I would also support Nuclear power. Once we figure out what to do with the waste... Way too much NIMBY going on on that front.
 
Damocles said:
I have never advocated for "solely focused on oil" position. If you truly remembered our conversation you would know that I have always advocated for the kitchen sink approach until we have a viable alternative and that I supported (and support) subsidizing research into that alternative.

I would also support Nuclear power. Once we figure out what to do with the waste... Way too much NIMBY going on on that front.
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I agree, I was listening to a nuclear physicist who claims that just using the waste of the old style Nuclear power plants, we could run a new style plant for many years.
 
Jarod said:
I agree, I was listening to a nuclear physicist who claims that just using the waste of the old style Nuclear power plants, we could run a new style plant for many years.
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That would be excellent. We are currently in the process of buying a ranch out in the middle of nowhere... one of the things I noticed right away is that most ranches have their own gasoline tanks.. (usually diesel)... Apparently it is an issue when the costs get high that some folks just come onto some properties and just steal it. It would be cool to have a solid alternatively fueled pickup truck. That silly looking one from Tesla isn't good enough... LOL.
 
archives said:
Probability it would be a short term arrangement, when as needed, and largely to meet European demands
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Meanwhile, OPEC U.S.A is still holding back on production.

Why do we need to go anywhere? I thought we were sitting on oceans of oil?
 
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