Top American Commander in Afghanistan: Taliban Winning

[blackascoal]

They are making gains because we never committed a level of troops there that was designed to take and hold ground. Despite my disagreement with the Iraq war, things are getting better in Iraq. People are moving back into mixed neighborhoods. Marriages between Sunnis and Shi'a are beginning to come back to numbers that look like they did when the government was secular and run by Saddam. Granted, there are still car bombs going off pretty regularly, but Iraqi's themselves are feeling better about their future.

All of that was accomplished because the US and our allies, but Iraqi and non Iraqi, went into neighborhoods and took on the guerrilla fighters and defeated them. It will probably take another 2 decades to rebuild all of Iraq and there is still the risk of them becoming a seriously radical fundamentalist Islamic country.

The Afghan people lived in hell under the Taliban, we through them out of power and then stepped back to the point that only Kabul is held by people who are friendly to the US. We have a moral obligation to the people there to fix this.

Things are getting better in Iraq?

Bombs targeting Shiites in Iraq kill at least 48, wound more than 250
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/10/bombs-targeting-shiites-i_n_255318.html

Is it getting worse again?

On June 20th, a huge lorry bomb exploded in Taza, a Turkmen town just south of the disputed city of Kirkuk, killing at least 70 people. Two days later at least seven bombs went off in and around Baghdad, including a roadside blast, a car bomb and a suicide attack, killing some 30 people altogether. And on June 24th another big bomb killed at least 70 people in Baghdad, perhaps the single deadliest attack in Iraq this year. The insurgents, knowing that the Americans are poised to pull out, are aiming to make Iraq as unstable as ever.
http://drjohnrobertson.blogspot.com/2009/06/economistasks-is-iraq-getting-worse.html

Strange that you find the benchmark of security as things getting back to where they were under Saddam.

There is no other way to see our invasion of Iraq as anything other than an abomination of humanity and the trashing of international law.

And in case you forgot, the Iraqi people never asked us to invade their country and mass-murder their citizens. We did that on our own. Nothing personal .. just business.

You can attempt to make koolaid out of that if you choose.

And you can commit your own son or daughter to die in the desert for your less than noble cause if you choose .. but like Iraq, Americans will mostly be doing the dying on their own.

UK poll: Afghan war is ‘unwinnable’
http://www.infowars.com/uk-poll-afghan-war-is-unwinnable/

and then there is this ...

Support for Afghan war drops, CNN poll finds
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/06/poll.afghanistan/

and this ...

Poll: More view Afghan war as 'mistake'
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-16-poll_N.htm

and there is this ...

Global Poll Finds Widespread Belief that Afghans Want NATO Forces Out
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/07/...Widespread_Belief_that_Afghans_Want_NATO_F_c/

Resentful Afghans unlikely to welcome, support government, foreign troops or Taliban

LASHKAR GAH - Incoming American forces are likely to continue to face a hostile Afghan population, even as they seek to reverse their military losses to a resurgent Taliban.

So hopeless is the prevailing situation in the landlocked country; that observers say that Afghan civilians are unlikely to take sides or offer unconditional support to either the foreign troops, the Afghan Government or the Taliban.

Villagers in some districts have taken up arms against foreign troops to protect their homes or in anger after losing relatives in air strikes, the New York Times quotes several community representatives, as saying.

Others have been moved to join insurgents out of poverty or simply because the Taliban’s influence is overtly pervasive.

Taliban control of the countryside is so extensive in provinces like Kandahar and Helmand that winning districts back will involve tough fighting and may ignite further tensions, residents and local officials warn.

The government has no presence in five of southern Helmand’s 13 districts, and in several others, like Nawa, it holds only the district town, where troops and officials live virtually under siege.

In rural areas, the local population has accepted Taliban rule and is watching the United States troop buildup with trepidation.

The southern provinces of Afghanistan have suffered the worst civilian casualties since NATO’s deployment to the region in 2006.

“Now there are more people siding with the Taliban than with the government,” the NYT quoted Abdul Qadir Noorzai, head of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission in southern Afghanistan, as saying.

“People are hostages of the Taliban, but they look at the coalition also as the enemy, because they have not seen anything good from them in seven or eight years,” adds Hajji Abdul Ahad Helmandwal, a district council leader from Nadali in Helmand Province.

Foreign troops continue to make mistakes that enrage whole sections of this deeply tribal society, like the killing of a tribal elder’s son and his wife as they were driving to their home in Helmand two months ago.

The infusion of more American troops into southern Afghanistan is aimed at ending a stalemate between NATO and Taliban forces.
http://blog.taragana.com/n/resentfu...t-government-foreign-troops-or-taliban-98479/

In the end, history will record our presence in Afghanistan as just another failed American for-profit war .. no differently than our atrocity-laden misadventure in Iraq.

 

[blackascoal]

as you can see in this picture, there are not a whole lot of muskets being used by Taliban fighters. I see up close what looks like a Moison Nagant bolt action 7.62x54, on Katusha Rocket propelled grenade and more than one automatic weapon, like an AK-47. So much for the musket comment.

You validate my comment. Their weapons are like muskets compared to ours .. but it's not like we aren't used vto losing to forces with lessor weapons .. Vietnam and Iraq .. where they didn't even have an airforce.

 

[Socrtease]

Things are getting better in Iraq?

Bombs targeting Shiites in Iraq kill at least 48, wound more than 250
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/10/bombs-targeting-shiites-i_n_255318.html

Is it getting worse again?

On June 20th, a huge lorry bomb exploded in Taza, a Turkmen town just south of the disputed city of Kirkuk, killing at least 70 people. Two days later at least seven bombs went off in and around Baghdad, including a roadside blast, a car bomb and a suicide attack, killing some 30 people altogether. And on June 24th another big bomb killed at least 70 people in Baghdad, perhaps the single deadliest attack in Iraq this year. The insurgents, knowing that the Americans are poised to pull out, are aiming to make Iraq as unstable as ever.
http://drjohnrobertson.blogspot.com/2009/06/economistasks-is-iraq-getting-worse.html

Strange that you find the benchmark of security as things getting back to where they were under Saddam.

There is no other way to see our invasion of Iraq as anything other than an abomination of humanity and the trashing of international law.

And in case you forgot, the Iraqi people never asked us to invade their country and mass-murder their citizens. We did that on our own. Nothing personal .. just business.

You can attempt to make koolaid out of that if you choose.

And you can commit your own son or daughter to die in the desert for your less than noble cause if you choose .. but like Iraq, Americans will mostly be doing the dying on their own.

UK poll: Afghan war is ‘unwinnable’
http://www.infowars.com/uk-poll-afghan-war-is-unwinnable/

and then there is this ...

Support for Afghan war drops, CNN poll finds
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/06/poll.afghanistan/

and this ...

Poll: More view Afghan war as 'mistake'
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-16-poll_N.htm

and there is this ...

Global Poll Finds Widespread Belief that Afghans Want NATO Forces Out
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/07/...Widespread_Belief_that_Afghans_Want_NATO_F_c/

Resentful Afghans unlikely to welcome, support government, foreign troops or Taliban

LASHKAR GAH - Incoming American forces are likely to continue to face a hostile Afghan population, even as they seek to reverse their military losses to a resurgent Taliban.

So hopeless is the prevailing situation in the landlocked country; that observers say that Afghan civilians are unlikely to take sides or offer unconditional support to either the foreign troops, the Afghan Government or the Taliban.

Villagers in some districts have taken up arms against foreign troops to protect their homes or in anger after losing relatives in air strikes, the New York Times quotes several community representatives, as saying.

Others have been moved to join insurgents out of poverty or simply because the Taliban’s influence is overtly pervasive.

Taliban control of the countryside is so extensive in provinces like Kandahar and Helmand that winning districts back will involve tough fighting and may ignite further tensions, residents and local officials warn.

The government has no presence in five of southern Helmand’s 13 districts, and in several others, like Nawa, it holds only the district town, where troops and officials live virtually under siege.

In rural areas, the local population has accepted Taliban rule and is watching the United States troop buildup with trepidation.

The southern provinces of Afghanistan have suffered the worst civilian casualties since NATO’s deployment to the region in 2006.

“Now there are more people siding with the Taliban than with the government,” the NYT quoted Abdul Qadir Noorzai, head of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission in southern Afghanistan, as saying.

“People are hostages of the Taliban, but they look at the coalition also as the enemy, because they have not seen anything good from them in seven or eight years,” adds Hajji Abdul Ahad Helmandwal, a district council leader from Nadali in Helmand Province.

Foreign troops continue to make mistakes that enrage whole sections of this deeply tribal society, like the killing of a tribal elder’s son and his wife as they were driving to their home in Helmand two months ago.

The infusion of more American troops into southern Afghanistan is aimed at ending a stalemate between NATO and Taliban forces.
http://blog.taragana.com/n/resentfu...t-government-foreign-troops-or-taliban-98479/

In the end, history will record our presence in Afghanistan as just another failed American for-profit war .. no differently than our atrocity-laden misadventure in Iraq.

The most important quote in all of that. If they see changes for the better they will change their view of foreign troops.

 

[blackascoal]

Quite a number of them are fighting with AK 47's dropped by the Soviets on their way out.

They are seriously out-gunned by US forces.

Stop acting as if this is a surprise .. cause if it is, you don't know shit about war.

What was it you said you did in Iraq?

 

[blackascoal]

The most important quote in all of that. If they see changes for the better they will change their view of foreign troops.

Let me guess .. you think this would be the first time that has been tried on the Afghan people?

You intend to rebuild Afghanistan .. at a time when this nation is already over-burdened with debt?

How many dead US soldiers and trillions of US taxpayer dollars is Afghanistan worth to you?

 

[Cypress]

Taliban Now Winning
U.S. Commander in Afghanistan Warns of Rising Casualties

The Taliban have gained the upper hand in Afghanistan, the top American commander there said, forcing the U.S. to change its strategy in the eight-year-old conflict by increasing the number of troops in heavily populated areas like the volatile southern city of Kandahar, the insurgency's spiritual home.

Gen. Stanley McChrystal warned that means U.S. casualties, already running at record levels, will remain high for months to come.

In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, the commander offered a preview of the strategic assessment he is to deliver to Washington later this month, saying the troop shifts are designed to better protect Afghan civilians from rising levels of Taliban violence and intimidation. The coming redeployments are the clearest manifestation to date of Gen. McChrystal's strategy for Afghanistan, which puts a premium on safeguarding the Afghan population rather than hunting down militants.

Gen. McChrystal said the Taliban are moving beyond their traditional strongholds in southern Afghanistan to threaten formerly stable areas in the north and west.

The militants are mounting sophisticated attacks that combine roadside bombs with ambushes by small teams of heavily armed militants, causing significant numbers of U.S. fatalities, he said. July was the bloodiest month of the war for American and British forces, and 12 more American troops have already been killed in August.

"It's a very aggressive enemy right now," Gen. McChrystal said in the interview Saturday at his office in a fortified NATO compound in Kabul. "We've got to stop their momentum, stop their initiative. It's hard work."

-- more at link
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124986154654218153.html

In case anyone disagrees with McChrystals assessment ...

NATO's Not Winning in Afghanistan, Report Says
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/30/AR2008013004314.html

The Taliban's Winning Strategy in Afghanistan
http://www.afghanconflictmonitor.org/2009/07/the-talibans-winning-strategy-in-afghanistan.html

Add to that .. just as in Iraq, NATO countries are already considering backing out of Afghanistan .. leaving the war and the dying there to the Americans.

It's now predicted by American commanders that Afghanistan will require another 10 years of war .. at best.

I don't think we have been "winning" that war for like 6 years.

No one ever wins a war in afghanistan.


I say we declare victory, get the hell out, and stop slaughtering civilians.

 

[Socrtease]

They are seriously out-gunned by US forces.

Stop acting as if this is a surprise .. cause if it is, you don't know shit about war.

What was it you said you did in Iraq?

Yes, they are outgunned, but your muskets comment was intended to create an unfair image. And just so you know, these are the same people that kicked the soviet unions ass.

 

[Damocles]

Yes, they are outgunned, but your muskets comment was intended to create an unfair image. And just so you know, these are the same people that kicked the soviet unions ass.

With the weapons we gave them.

 

[DamnYankee]

Bush promised to capture or kill Bin Laden.

Didn't do it .. in EIGHT YEARS of fighting people armed with muskets.

If you think the goal is to capture or kill one man .. you'd be sadly mistaken.

Bush had Bin Laden cornered at Tora Bora and he simply let him go. None of that in your angst about Biun Laden .. and it's real obvious why.

I can't believe that you, who claim to be so well educated, still believe Kerry's lie about that. Here's a summary of the Tora Bora battle by the general in command:

So did OBL get away? Maybe, and maybe he wasn't even there. No one but the bad guys know. Did we blow it in Tora Bora because we outsourced the war to untrustworthy Afghans? Not hardly, Senator Kerry. We planned smart, operated with indigenous allies, and kicked butt. Gen. DeLong wouldn't say how many al Qaeda he thought were killed there, but it's pretty clear that while some escaped, most did not. We hurt them badly. Did the Tora Bora operation fail? DeLong says no. Why? Twenty-two days later, Hamid Karzai was elected the interim president of Afghanistan, and the many Afghanis who fought with our forces remember us as friends, not enemies.

http://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin200411010743.asp

So back to the issue which you seem to want to avoid. Obama promised to capture or kill bin Laden. What has he done to further this goal?

 

[blackascoal]

I don't think we have been "winning" that war for like 6 years.

No one ever wins a war in afghanistan.


I say we declare victory, get the hell out, and stop slaughtering civilians.

I agree with that.

 

[blackascoal]

I can't believe that you, who claim to be so well educated, still believe Kerry's lie about that. Here's a summary of the Tora Bora battle by the general in command: http://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin200411010743.asp

So back to the issue which you seem to want to avoid. Obama promised to capture or kill bin Laden. What has he done to further this goal?

National review .. what an unbiased source.

Somehow, your source forgot to mention this document ...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A document from the U.S. military appears to contradict the Pentagon's previous statements that it does not know whether al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden escaped U.S. forces at Tora Bora in Afghanistan in December 2001.

The legal document, which summarizes evidence against a terror suspect in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, states the prisoner "assisted in the escape of Usama Bin Laden from Tora Bora."
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/24/pentagon.binladen/index.html

Feel free to claim the US military is lying and doesn't know what they're talking about.

Additionally, I created this thread so there is no conversation that I'm trying to avoid .. especially considering that I didn't vote for either one of the clowns in charge.

There is no issue at hand here .. only your biased support of the most failed president in American history.

Eight years .. no Bin Laden .. but you want him produced now that the person who beat the hell out of your candidate is running the show.

What threads did you craete demanding that Bush capture or kill Bin Laden?

Let me guess ... NONE.

 

[blackascoal]

Yes, they are outgunned, but your muskets comment was intended to create an unfair image. And just so you know, these are the same people that kicked the soviet unions ass.

My comment created the image that these people are massively outgunned, but are still winning.

They kicked out the Soviets WITH OUR HELP IN CREATING, FUNDING, and SUPPLYING the MUHAJADEEN .. which became the Taliban.

... great plan.

 

[DamnYankee]

National review .. what an unbiased source.

Somehow, your source forgot to mention this document ...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A document from the U.S. military appears to contradict the Pentagon's previous statements that it does not know whether al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden escaped U.S. forces at Tora Bora in Afghanistan in December 2001.

The legal document, which summarizes evidence against a terror suspect in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, states the prisoner "assisted in the escape of Usama Bin Laden from Tora Bora."
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/24/pentagon.binladen/index.html

Feel free to claim the US military is lying and doesn't know what they're talking about.

Additionally, I created this thread so there is no conversation that I'm trying to avoid .. especially considering that I didn't vote for either one of the clowns in charge.

There is no issue at hand here .. only your biased support of the most failed president in American history.

Eight years .. no Bin Laden .. but you want him produced now that the person who beat the hell out of your candidate is running the show.

What threads did you craete demanding that Bush capture or kill Bin Laden?

Let me guess ... NONE.

Dooood- NR is simply reporting statements from the commander in charge of the operation, which does not conflict with what you posted from CNN, which is, by the way, a confession of a terrorist, which you seem to want to believe as gospel while discounting the statements from the American General.

I'm clearly on record here that I don't care if bin Laden is dead or alive, as he is merely one weak figure in the WOT. Obama, however, stated otherwise. So why can't he deliver the goods? He's obviously a weak CIC.

 

[blackascoal]

Dooood- NR is simply reporting statements from the commander in charge of the operation, which does not conflict with what you posted from CNN, which is, by the way, a confession of a terrorist, which you seem to want to believe as gospel while discounting the statements from the American General.

I'm clearly on record here that I don't care if bin Laden is dead or alive, as he is merely one weak figure in the WOT. Obama, however, stated otherwise. So why can't he deliver the goods? He's obviously a weak CIC.

Your argument is simply too stupid to waste any more time on.

Six months in office and you're whining about Bin Laden when you didn't have a peep to say while Bush spent 8 miserably failed years in office without capturing him.

I ask again .. how many threads did you create admonishing Bush for not capturing Bin Laden?

NONE

Not a single damn one.

 

[DamnYankee]

Your argument is simply too stupid to waste any more time on.

Six months in office and you're whining about Bin Laden when you didn't have a peep to say while Bush spent 8 miserably failed years in office without capturing him.

I ask again .. how many threads did you create admonishing Bush for not capturing Bin Laden?

....

Again, I'm not whining about bin Laden- I'm insisting that the current CIC do what he claimed was his top priority- kill or capture one tall skinny man. Obama's got complete control of the most capable military force that has ever existed, so what's he waiting for?

When Bush was CIC he never claimed that killing bin Laden was a top priority. Being a real leader, he knew that keeping him on the run was all that was necessary, in spite of what the arm chair detractors would say. *shrug*

 

[Topspin]

Is there a site that is mostly democrats on the board. These armchair Nazi losers are wearing thin on me.

 

[WinterBorn]

They are seriously out-gunned by US forces.

Stop acting as if this is a surprise .. cause if it is, you don't know shit about war.

What was it you said you did in Iraq?

BAC, with all due respect, its not just about the weapons.

Suppose Southernman were dressed in fatigues and patrolling in some of the more dangerous sections of Atlanta. Would the locals need equal weapons to defeat him? Or would they balance the fight by knowing the area and being able to hide within the civilian population?

And the Mosin-Nagant is a decent sniper rifle within reasonable ranges.

 

[WinterBorn]

When Bush was CIC he never claimed that killing bin Laden was a top priority. Being a real leader, he knew that keeping him on the run was all that was necessary, in spite of what the arm chair detractors would say. *shrug*

Umm, no that is not true.

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

Bush just started saying he wasn't concerned about finding bin Laden after a year of chasing him and failing to get him.

 

[blackascoal]

BAC, with all due respect, its not just about the weapons.

Suppose Southernman were dressed in fatigues and patrolling in some of the more dangerous sections of Atlanta. Would the locals need equal weapons to defeat him? Or would they balance the fight by knowing the area and being able to hide within the civilian population?

And the Mosin-Nagant is a decent sniper rifle within reasonable ranges.

Shouldn't what you suggest be considered before engaging in wars that we can't win?

You make my point about it isn't just the weapons and you make a point about the limits of military power .. something Hollywood created Americans have no clue of.

And, the Mosin-Nagant is no match for our more sophistcated weapons. It's been around since the Ice Age.

 

[blackascoal]

Umm, no that is not true.

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

Bush just started saying he wasn't concerned about finding bin Laden after a year of chasing him and failing to get him.

Absolutely true.