Science Is in the Details

uscitizen said:
Explain please.

Supernatural such as a ghost must generate some atomic level reaction to make them visible to human eyes won't they? And something has to cause that reaction.
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and if God decides to slap you silly, what are you going to do to stop him?.....tell him he doesn't exist?....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sure he can.....he can reshape the physical universe any way he wants.....if he made it, he can bend it....
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Bending it will still leave physical rules of behaviour for matter and energy.
Different perhaps but they will be there.

And if he did change it some form of action upon the physical universe would be required.
 
Demwit said:
Bending it will still leave physical rules of behaviour for matter and energy.
Different perhaps but they will be there.

And if he did change it some form of action upon the physical universe would be required.
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that doesn't make God the object of science, it makes him the noun and the verb.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that doesn't make God the object of science, it makes him the noun and the verb.....
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That's very Buddhist of you, but it's also meaningless. Any interaction God would have with the physical universe would be measurable and observable. That makes him well within the realm of science.
 
ib1yysguy said:
That's very Buddhist of you, but it's also meaningless. Any interaction God would have with the physical universe would be measurable and observable. That makes him well within the realm of science.
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no it doesn't.....it merely makes the results the realm of science....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that doesn't make God the object of science, it makes him the noun and the verb.....
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No it just means all things are expalinable by science if we just understand enough. Even God if he existed.

Heaven is not perfect. If so why did a bunch of the angels revolt and they have a war?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no it doesn't.....it merely makes the results the realm of science....
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.... right. So any interaction God would have with you is through the physical universe, which makes his handiwork measurable and observable.

BUT IT'S NEVER BEEN MEASURED OR OBSERVED. You agree that it can be, however. So the fact that it HASNT should probably put up a warning flag in your tiny head and make you say, "Wait a second... if God has to interact with me through measurable phenomenon, why hasn't it ever been accomplished? Could it be because the phenomena don't really happen?"
 
ib1yysguy said:
.... right. So any interaction God would have with you is through the physical universe, which makes his handiwork measurable and observable.

BUT IT'S NEVER BEEN MEASURED OR OBSERVED. You agree that it can be, however. So the fact that it HASNT should probably put up a warning flag in your tiny head and make you say, "Wait a second... if God has to interact with me through measurable phenomenon, why hasn't it ever been accomplished? Could it be because the phenomena don't really happen?"
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could the reason it has never been observed or measured be that God never did anything?
 
ib1yysguy said:
.... right. So any interaction God would have with you is through the physical universe, which makes his handiwork measurable and observable.

BUT IT'S NEVER BEEN MEASURED OR OBSERVED. You agree that it can be, however. So the fact that it HASNT should probably put up a warning flag in your tiny head and make you say, "Wait a second... if God has to interact with me through measurable phenomenon, why hasn't it ever been accomplished? Could it be because the phenomena don't really happen?"
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what are you talking about....the entire universe would be the impact of his handiwork....everything that has ever been measured or observed about the universe IS his handiwork......but you can't use science to study HIM, only the physical universe....
 
Whomever said:
could the reason it has never been observed or measured be that God never did anything?
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That's exactly it.

If it can be measured and observed, which we have concluded it can be if it exists, then why hasn't it?

In fact, the times people have claimed that there is some sort of influence like prayer for the sick, study after study has shown that prayer doesn't do anything more than random chance or a placebo would allow for.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
what are you talking about....the entire universe would be the impact of his handiwork....everything that has ever been measured or observed about the universe IS his handiwork......
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Sez you and your religion.
I say because there is no proof and that you are most likely wrong.

Because the universe exists therfore god must have made it.
Now that is an illogical statement.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
what are you talking about....the entire universe would be the impact of his handiwork....everything that has ever been measured or observed about the universe IS his handiwork......but you can't use science to study HIM, only the physical universe....
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Now you're in the realm of a deistic God who set things into motion and then took his hands off and let things happen. If that's your contention, then whatever. But that's a long, long way away from the Christian God who knows your thoughts and interferes on your behalf to make you better when you get sick, cares who you sleep with, etc.

What conclusion can you draw about the fact that there's no measurable evidence of God's interaction with the physical universe after it's creation, if I were to grant you it was created by God?
 
ib1yysguy said:
Now you're in the realm of a deistic God who set things into motion and then took his hands off and let things happen.
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why?....if you observe something happening, how do you know it is something that would have occurred without his action?....


What conclusion can you draw about the fact that there's no measurable evidence of God's interaction with the physical universe after it's creation
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all you can measure is the physical universe.....how do you know there isn't a metaphysical instigation?.....

a person has cancer....the cancer disappears....you can only measure the cancer cells, you can't measure the cause....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
why?....if you observe something happening, how do you know it is something that would have occurred without his action?....




all you can measure is the physical universe.....how do you know there isn't a metaphysical instigation?.....
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You know because you know what random chance would give you. It's statistics and it's used all the time. If I have a control population of a few thousand sick people that aren't being prayed for, and I have a few thousand sick people who are being prayed for, and the number of people who die from their ailments from both populations are statistically similar enough, one can conclude that prayer had 0 measurable effect.

Of course, this has been done a few hundred times by scientists who have more complicated methods than that, better controls, and account for other variables. And you know what they found in every study?

That's just one example.
 
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PostmodernProphet said:
why?....if you observe something happening, how do you know it is something that would have occurred without his action?....




all you can measure is the physical universe.....how do you know there isn't a metaphysical instigation?.....

a person has cancer....the cancer disappears....you can only measure the cancer cells, you can't measure the cause....
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Not yet, but at least we can now measure the cancer cells. In another 100 years who knows?
 
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