Socialism Chavez style, is this the control Oboma wants?

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Socialism on the never-never
Jun 18th 2009 * CARACAS
From The Economist print edition

Hard times on the streets of Caracas

Panos

Grab the chicken while stocks lastGLOBAL capitalism may be in crisis, but thanks to “21st-century socialism” Venezuela’s economy is “armour-plated” and the country’s poor have nothing to fear. That has been the message from Hugo Chávez, Venezuela’s president, and his ministers in recent months. If anyone is to suffer from the lower price of oil, the country’s mainstay, they insist it will be only “the oligarchy”. And serve them right: according to Mr Chávez, the rich are merely “animals in human form”.

The oil price has doubled from its December trough (although it is still only half its peak of a year ago), so one might expect Mr Chávez’s fighting talk to be reflected in resilient living standards. But inflation is close to 30%, real wages are falling and welfare schemes have suffered big cuts in their budget. The mood on the streets of poorer suburbs of Caracas, the capital, is glum.

“I go shopping whenever I can scrape together enough money,” says Pedro López, a bricklayer who has been out of work for the past three months. Officially, unemployment is stable at around 7%. But Mr López says: “It’s not just me. Lots of my workmates have been laid off too.” According to the Central Bank, the economy grew by 0.3% in the first quarter compared with the same months of 2008. Construction is supposed to have expanded by 3.6%. But some economists doubt the figures.

Public investment is under strain. This month, for example, the boss of Caracas’s metro system announced a review of a new line already under construction, with the probable scrapping of two stations. He argued that since these were in middle-class areas they would “benefit the oligarchy” who all have cars anyway. Other public-sector projects have slowed or stalled, seemingly for lack of funds.

Consumer confidence fell by 17% between December and May, according to Datanálisis, a market-research company. Food consumption among poorer Venezuelans may be declining, says Pavel Gómez, an economist at IESA, a Caracas business school. Opinion polls reveal a sharp rise in worries over the cost of living. The government’s answer to years of persistent inflation has been price controls and Mercal, a state-owned and subsidised grocery chain that offers a limited selection of staples at discounts of up to 40%. But Mercal’s sales fell by more than 11% in the first five months of this year, partly because of store closures and distribution problems.

“Every day, things get a little tighter,” said Migdalia Pérez, a community activist in Catia, a working-class district of 500,000 people in western Caracas. “And it’s been a while since we’ve had a Mercal around here.” Near Propatria metro station, a dozen Mercal employees sit idle by the door of the local branch. They insist it is being “refurbished”. Locals say it opens only when an occasional shipment of imported chicken arrives. Smaller corner shops known as Mercalitos which devote some shelf-space to subsidised goods are also closing down. “It’s not profitable,” says José Cabrita, who owned one. “They don’t allow you any margin.” He adds that supplies were erratic.

The most popular of Mr Chávez’s social misiones is Barrio Adentro, which includes a network of primary-health centres initially staffed by thousands of Cuban doctors. But many of these have also closed. Poorer Venezuelans must rely on rundown public hospitals, which have been starved of funds under Mr Chávez. Mr López, the bricklayer, says that when he broke his wrist in an industrial accident, “it took three months to fix it, and I had to buy the metal pins myself.”

Much of the money for the dozens of social misiones which Mr Chávez set up as a parallel welfare state came direct from PDVSA, the state oil company. But its oil output has been falling. When the oil price plunged last year, its direct transfers to welfare programmes fell to $2.7 billion, from $7.1 billion in 2007. That is because responsibility for the misiones has been handed over to the relevant ministries, according to Rafael Ramírez, PDVSA’s chairman. But since oil revenues pay for around half of the government’s budget, this has not prevented cuts in welfare spending.

On the face of things, the recent recovery in the price of oil to around $70 a barrel should enable Mr Chávez to muddle through without radical shifts in policy. But Venezuela’s generally heavy and sulphurous oil sells at a discount of around $10 a barrel. To sustain public spending at its peak level without deficits would have required Venezuelan oil to sell at an average of $90 a barrel last year, according to a calculation by Domingo Maza Zavala, a former governor of the Central Bank. The magic price would be higher still today, given inflation (the official exchange rate is pegged to the dollar) and the further expansion of the state through the nationalisation of private businesses.

So that points to a mixture of cuts and borrowing. Since public debt was low, at 20% of GDP last year, and Venezuelan banks have ever-fewer private clients, there is some room for further loans. The National Assembly
 
yet obama has done nothing to dispel concerns about his socialist dreams...he already controls the means and production of one of america's largest auto manufacturers....he wants to put wage limits out there...his healthcare plan is very close to nationalized health care...
 
yet obama has done nothing to dispel concerns about his socialist dreams...he already controls the means and production of one of america's largest auto manufacturers....he wants to put wage limits out there...his healthcare plan is very close to nationalized health care...

Yep, his dream is to control everything and keep us as his puppets.
 
yet obama has done nothing to dispel concerns about his socialist dreams...he already controls the means and production of one of america's largest auto manufacturers....he wants to put wage limits out there...his healthcare plan is very close to nationalized health care...

Don't you people even know what socialism is?

Socialists don't give away trillions to banks without nationalizing them.

Let's see the hands of all the people dumb enough to believe that Wall Street would give more money than they've ever given to a presidential candidate who is a socialist.

Nationalized healthcare is supported by the majority of Americans and has been for the last 10 years. Are they socialists?
 
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Socialism...? Not is the classic sense

Its..Western style socialism......

nationalize ??? Simply a word..... ....... its CONTROL.....government control, thats counts..
 
Socialism...? Not is the classic sense

Its..Western style socialism......

nationalize ??? Simply a word..... ....... its CONTROL.....government control, thats counts..

In other words, you're dumb enough to believe that Wall Street pours money on socialists.
 
A union given 1/3 of what was a private company .....

80 billion government debt forgiven ?

Obama setting salary caps for private business ?

Obama firing CEO's....?

Tobacco business takeover?

Socialism....western style....its only a beginning


Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."
 
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A union given 1/3 of what was a private company .....

80 billion government debt forgiven ?

Obama setting salary caps for private business ?

Obama firing CEO's....?

Tobacco business takeover?

Socialism....western style....its only a beginning


Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Yeah, but we're not going to let it happen. No way will I ever become a puppet for this government, besides what he is doing is unconstitutional.
 
Yeah, but we're not going to let it happen. No way will I ever become a puppet for this government, besides what he is doing is unconstitutional.

riiiight

Let me know when a court case gets brought against the Obama administration for any of those things being "unconstitutional." The fact is, he isn't really doing any of those things. There's about a million HUGE details bravo left out that make all the difference in the world.
 
Wow .. does the stupid ever end.

Obama and socialism .. mindboggling stupid.

You must remember that you are dealing with willfully ignorant neocon parrots with a severe case of tunnel vision. They'll squawk with glee about any problems within Venezuela without mentioning the FACT that we all those poverty stricken areas existed LONG before Chavez was elected, in fact they were more prolific under the old quasi-oligarchs. Anything positive about Venezuela does not get major press coverage. So much for the alleged "liberal Main Stream Media".

Oh by the way, you'll never get these fools to deal with the real definitions of socialism and capitalism....nor will you get them to deal with all the "anti-capitalist" machinations of the Shrub & company prior to Obama's election. You see, in the neocon world, all our current problems were created just 6 months ago.:rolleyes:
 
what the typical dem doesn't get due to lack of business education.
CAPITALISM DIDN'T CAUSE THIS MESS.
Criminal business people did. It's called fraud.
Do we need more regulation? A cat could tell you that.
Do we need to throw out capitalism and become a socialist country without clean running water? Only one of us wants that. Eventually he will get off Chavez's nut sack.
 
You must remember that you are dealing with willfully ignorant neocon parrots with a severe case of tunnel vision. They'll squawk with glee about any problems within Venezuela without mentioning the FACT that we all those poverty stricken areas existed LONG before Chavez was elected, in fact they were more prolific under the old quasi-oligarchs. Anything positive about Venezuela does not get major press coverage. So much for the alleged "liberal Main Stream Media".

Oh by the way, you'll never get these fools to deal with the real definitions of socialism and capitalism....nor will you get them to deal with all the "anti-capitalist" machinations of the Shrub & company prior to Obama's election. You see, in the neocon world, all our current problems were created just 6 months ago.:rolleyes:

Well said.
 
what the typical dem doesn't get due to lack of business education.
CAPITALISM DIDN'T CAUSE THIS MESS.
Criminal business people did. It's called fraud.
Do we need more regulation? A cat could tell you that.
Do we need to throw out capitalism and become a socialist country without clean running water? Only one of us wants that. Eventually he will get off Chavez's nut sack.

Don't tell me you're dumb enough not to know the history of Venezuela's water problems or the improvements to the system under Chavez before you opened your mouth.

Don't tell me you're dumb enough not to know that there are huge problems with water resources looming for AMERICA.

"Within a few years, a water crisis of catastrophic proportions will explode upon us — unless aroused citizens ... demand of their leadership actions reflecting vision, understanding and courage." -- Former US Senator Paul Simon

Don't tell me you don't know there are water problems throughout the entire world .. including in many democratic countries.

Water doesn't have a political affiliation.

And if you must speak, at least speak the truth. I'm a democratic socialist and I've been here for years and I've never even slightly intimated that we should throw out democracy or capitalism, but pure capitalism is now on stage all over the world .. and pure capitialism is as failed an idea as the "free market."

Mixed economies have proven they work in the best interest of people.
 
pure comedy at it's best.
even the most communist Chineese know are forced to adopt capitalism.
Is it ugly to watch being make, yes like sausage but it's 1,000 better than the pissy water in Venz.
did you read the 30% inflation is Venz, LOL gov control of production
 
pure comedy at it's best.
even the most communist Chineese know are forced to adopt capitalism.
Is it ugly to watch being make, yes like sausage but it's 1,000 better than the pissy water in Venz.
did you read the 30% inflation is Venz, LOL gov control of production

There is no point arguing with you about Venezuela. You don't know enough about the country to even make an interesting discussion.

Educate yourself if that's possible.

Start from where Venezuela was before Chavez took office and I'm betting that if you have the capacity to learn you'll come away from the education with a much better understanding of why Chavez is so popular not only in his own country, but throughout Latin America.
 
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And that's exactly where you are on economics. I understand but don't agree with your adulation of a third world SOCIALIST strong arm leader.
30% inflation is laughable even if they are better than the last dictator they had.
 
A union given 1/3 of what was a private company .....

80 billion government debt forgiven ?

Obama setting salary caps for private business ?

Obama firing CEO's....?

Tobacco business takeover?

Socialism....western style....its only a beginning


Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Truer words were never spoken!
 
And that's exactly where you are on economics. I understand but don't agree with your adulation of a third world SOCIALIST strong arm leader.
30% inflation is laughable even if they are better than the last dictator they had.

Again you make my point brother.

"Strong arm leaders" don't get elected by huge majorities of the population.

It's difficult if not impossible for you to discuss Venezuela without made-up and make-believe labels that do not apply.

Comparing Obama to Chavez stretches stupid to its limits.

Wall Street .. which you love .. does not agree with your uber-silly comparison.

While you're looking out the window at problems in countries you don't live in, perhaps you should take some time to look in the fucking mirror to discover the problems in your own country .. many of which dwarf the problems in Venezuela.

By the way ...

Venezuela’s Monthly Inflation and Unemployment Rates Drop

Mérida, March 6th 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) -- Monthly inflation in Venezuela dropped to 1.3% in February from 2.3% in January, an indication that last year’s high rate of monthly inflation may be coming under control. Also, the unemployment rate in January was 9.5%, a decrease from what it was at the beginning of 2008 but represents a typical seasonal increase since December.

Food prices, after inflating by more than 35% over the course of the world food crisis last year, did not increase in the month of February. Rents rose by just 0.4%, health care costs rose by 2.8%, and transportation costs rose by 2.2%, according to the National Institute of Statistics (INE).

The deceleration of inflation occurred in all ten of Venezuela’s principal cities. February’s inflation rate was the lowest registered since January of 2008, when the INE expanded the number of prices, establishments, and cities taken into account in its inflation measurement.

February’s inflation rate brings the total inflation over the past twelve months to 25.6%. Inflation peaked last May at 3.2% for that month.

January’s unemployment rate of 9.5% showed improvement compared to the 10.2% unemployment in January 2008. It is also significantly lower than the 16.6% unemployment in January of 1999, the year President Hugo Chávez took office, and it is a sharp drop from the peak of 19.1% unemployment following the management-led oil industry shutdown, an intentional sabotage of the economy, that ended in early 2003.

However, January’s unemployment rate is an increase from the 6.1% unemployment in December of 2008, which is typical for Venezuela’s seasonal fluctuations in its unemployment rate, which tends to jump significantly between December and January every year. Last year, unemployment averaged 7.4%.

Venezuela has set a goal of 15% inflation for 2009, and plans to maintain its social programs, stimulus to small and medium sized enterprises, and investments in infrastructure and the agricultural sector, in order to increase employment.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4273

Why aren't you applauding the increases in the quality of life index for all Venezuelans?

Why aren't you applauding the efforts by Chavez to improve the lives of his people .. which has UNDOUBTEDLY improved since he's been in office?

Simply put .. it's because you don't give a fuck about Venezuela or the Venezuelan people.
 
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