Iran, America and conservatives

Bfgrn

Bfgrn

New member
Irony...

Progressives in Iran take to the streets to protest oppression and the status quo...conservatives in Iran support the authoritarian regime and chant "death to America"...

Conservatives in America defend progressives in Iran's right to protest...but when progressives in America protest a war started by an authoritarian regime...conservatives in America support the authoritarian regime and chant "death to AmericANS"...

Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.
Bfgrn
 
liberal, conservative, Progressives have a different meaning in a lot of countries, but good try, I guess.:rolleyes:
 
meme said:
liberal, conservative, Progressives have a different meaning in a lot of countries, but good try, I guess.:rolleyes:
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Not really...you are confused by parochialism, right/left labels and your provincial indoctrination...

I know those are big words, that's why I call it being a right wing pea brain...
 
Not all Conservatives supported the war. Not all liberals protested or worked to prevent or end the war.

Many conservatives protested the war and continue to do so.

As an earlier post noted, the word conservative is not specific to a particular ideology when used in a global context. Conservatives in China work to conserve the Communist State.

If Conservatives in a given country were working to conserve, say, a Constitution that establishes strict limitations on government power over the rights of people, you could certainly make an argument that those conservatives were working quite hard to conserve some liberal institutions.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
Not all Conservatives supported the war. Not all liberals protested or worked to prevent or end the war.

Many conservatives protested the war and continue to do so.

As an earlier post noted, the word conservative is not specific to a particular ideology when used in a global context. Conservatives in China work to conserve the Communist State.

If Conservatives in a given country were working to conserve, say, a Constitution that establishes strict limitations on government power over the rights of people, you could certainly make an argument that those conservatives were working quite hard to conserve some liberal institutions.
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I am. Thank you.
 
Bfgrn said:
Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.
Click to expand...

Interesting thought, I would add that in America, it is class or social level too, as most conservatives are republicans but they are so because of money not any ideological frame.

And Adam has a point but a weak one, as most conservatives support a laissez faire corporatism and ideology that is global, it seems their support of the constitution only goes so far as the corporate door.

Happy Father's day.

Slight clarification. They consider themselves conservatives because they are republicans or visa versa.
 
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Adam Weinberg said:
Not all Conservatives supported the war. Not all liberals protested or worked to prevent or end the war.

Many conservatives protested the war and continue to do so.

As an earlier post noted, the word conservative is not specific to a particular ideology when used in a global context. Conservatives in China work to conserve the Communist State.

If Conservatives in a given country were working to conserve, say, a Constitution that establishes strict limitations on government power over the rights of people, you could certainly make an argument that those conservatives were working quite hard to conserve some liberal institutions.
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That's a good point Adam. From a political stand point the word "Conservative" and "Liberal" are often misused. Oddly, it's self identified conservatives who usually misuse the words.

A conservative is a person who desires to maintain the status quo. Who believes that the present system, social, economic, political, works and radical change would be wrong and therefore resists change.

Most of those on the far right are not conservatives but are in fact "reactionaries". I'm not using that in the pejorative sense either. A reactionary is a person who is an opponent of progress and liberalism and who is reluctant to accept change or new ideas.

In political discourse these far right "reactionaries" often misuse the word "Liberal" as "socialist" in order to marginalize liberals as a political influence or philosophy.

The best examples I can give of self identified conservatives on this board who are actually political reactionaries and not really conservatives are Dixie, Meme, Ice Dancer and to a lesser extent Southernman. SM is more a contrarian then reactionary.
 
midcan5 said:
Interesting thought, I would add that in America, it is class or social level too, as most conservatives are republicans but they are so because of money not any ideological frame.

And Adam has a point but a weak one, as most conservatives support a laissez faire corporatism and ideology that is global, it seems their support of the constitution only goes so far as the corporate door.

Happy Father's day.

Slight clarification. They consider themselves conservatives because they are republicans or visa versa.
Click to expand...
No Adams point is not a weak one. In our domestic political debates the terms conservative and liberal are often misused. One can be conservative about changing the status quo in our politics when the status quo is liberal and/or progressive or socialist or even communist.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
Not all Conservatives supported the war. Not all liberals protested or worked to prevent or end the war.

Many conservatives protested the war and continue to do so.

As an earlier post noted, the word conservative is not specific to a particular ideology when used in a global context. Conservatives in China work to conserve the Communist State.

If Conservatives in a given country were working to conserve, say, a Constitution that establishes strict limitations on government power over the rights of people, you could certainly make an argument that those conservatives were working quite hard to conserve some liberal institutions.
Click to expand...

AW, I'm a Jack Kennedy liberal and a Goldwater libertarian. BTW, the two men were good friends.

I do not include all conservatives or all liberals in any portrayal.

You said: Conservatives in China work to conserve the Communist State. Your point reinforce my contention: "Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth." Conservatism is not an ideology, it is blind nationalism.

After the fall of the Soviet Union began, it was Russian conservatives who strongly opposed the liberalization of Soviet society under Mikhail Gorbachev; Stalinists, xenophobic fringe groups, like Pamyat, as well as large numbers of less extreme nationalists who yearn for what they see as the simple values of Old Russia and the Orthodox church.

The more extreme right wing groups saw the liberalization of Soviet society as a conspiracy by Jews, Masons and Westernizers.

If we apply the same human characteristics and personality markers to Iran today; it is conservatives who support the Islamic State, the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

If we apply it to history, during the American Revolution, the American colonists who remained loyal to the Kingdom of Great Britain, the Tories and lobsterbacks were mainly "conserve" -atives.

The unyielding liberal bashing and the call for strong virile governments and leaders in Europe from the right in the 1920's paved the way for fascism in Italy and Germany and authoritarian and traditionalist governments came to power in the Soviet Union, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Hungary, and Austria, and a quasi-Fascist government formed in Rumania.

If you are a true follower of Barry Goldwater, then you're aware that he sounded the strongest and earliest warning that the GOP was headed down the authoritarian path by letting the likes of Falwell and Robertson take over the party. And you would also know that one of Goldwater's closest friends and confidants was John W. Dean. Dean has linked extensive studies on authoritarianism and the how authoritarians have taken over the Republican Party.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
John W. Dean

The most reasonable explanation I've seen is from psychological studies; liberals believe people are basically good, and conservatives believe people are basically evil.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater

Ref.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/27/world/soviet-conservatives-try-to-turn-back-the-clock-on-gorbachev-s-policies.html
http://bostonreview.net/BR28.3/gleason.html
 
Bfgrn said:
AW, I'm a Jack Kennedy liberal and a Goldwater libertarian. BTW, the two men were good friends.

I do not include all conservatives or all liberals in any portrayal.

You said: Conservatives in China work to conserve the Communist State. Your point reinforce my contention: "Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth." Conservatism is not an ideology, it is blind nationalism.

After the fall of the Soviet Union began, it was Russian conservatives who strongly opposed the liberalization of Soviet society under Mikhail Gorbachev; Stalinists, xenophobic fringe groups, like Pamyat, as well as large numbers of less extreme nationalists who yearn for what they see as the simple values of Old Russia and the Orthodox church.

The more extreme right wing groups saw the liberalization of Soviet society as a conspiracy by Jews, Masons and Westernizers.

If we apply the same human characteristics and personality markers to Iran today; it is conservatives who support the Islamic State, the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

If we apply it to history, during the American Revolution, the American colonists who remained loyal to the Kingdom of Great Britain, the Tories and lobsterbacks were mainly "conserve" -atives.

The unyielding liberal bashing and the call for strong virile governments and leaders in Europe from the right in the 1920's paved the way for fascism in Italy and Germany and authoritarian and traditionalist governments came to power in the Soviet Union, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Hungary, and Austria, and a quasi-Fascist government formed in Rumania.

If you are a true follower of Barry Goldwater, then you're aware that he sounded the strongest and earliest warning that the GOP was headed down the authoritarian path by letting the likes of Falwell and Robertson take over the party. And you would also know that one of Goldwater's closest friends and confidants was John W. Dean. Dean has linked extensive studies on authoritarianism and the how authoritarians have taken over the Republican Party.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
John W. Dean

The most reasonable explanation I've seen is from psychological studies; liberals believe people are basically good, and conservatives believe people are basically evil.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater

Ref.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/27/world/soviet-conservatives-try-to-turn-back-the-clock-on-gorbachev-s-policies.html
http://bostonreview.net/BR28.3/gleason.html
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Most conservatives now are internationalists, not nationalists. They believe in destroying the american standard of living, in favor of corporate profits and multinational corporations. Libertarians are too, and so are liberals.

Globalization is the koolaid of our era.

internationalist is the prevalant brand of fascism.
 
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Mottleydude said:
No Adams point is not a weak one. In our domestic political debates the terms conservative and liberal are often misused. One can be conservative about changing the status quo in our politics when the status quo is liberal and/or progressive or socialist or even communist.
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I think Midcan make a good point. In spite of how "conservatism" is defined throughout the world and in spite of the anomaly of conservatives against the war, there is a very specifc character of conservatism in America .. albeit, right-wing conservatism, that does in fact support lassiez-faire economic policies and whose support of the constitution extends only to the corporate door.

However you also make a good point about how the line is often crossed. That being said, liberals for the war and conservatives against it were both anomalies.

What we're seeing is the blending of America's political parties and the superficial blending of left/right due in large part to the collapse of right-wing ideology. Obama is the messiah of this movement .. but I don't think it bodes well for this country.

Welcome toi the Age of the Centrist.
 
Bfgrn said:
AW, I'm a Jack Kennedy liberal and a Goldwater libertarian. BTW, the two men were good friends.

I do not include all conservatives or all liberals in any portrayal.

You said: Conservatives in China work to conserve the Communist State. Your point reinforce my contention: "Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth." Conservatism is not an ideology, it is blind nationalism.

After the fall of the Soviet Union began, it was Russian conservatives who strongly opposed the liberalization of Soviet society under Mikhail Gorbachev; Stalinists, xenophobic fringe groups, like Pamyat, as well as large numbers of less extreme nationalists who yearn for what they see as the simple values of Old Russia and the Orthodox church.

The more extreme right wing groups saw the liberalization of Soviet society as a conspiracy by Jews, Masons and Westernizers.

If we apply the same human characteristics and personality markers to Iran today; it is conservatives who support the Islamic State, the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

If we apply it to history, during the American Revolution, the American colonists who remained loyal to the Kingdom of Great Britain, the Tories and lobsterbacks were mainly "conserve" -atives.

The unyielding liberal bashing and the call for strong virile governments and leaders in Europe from the right in the 1920's paved the way for fascism in Italy and Germany and authoritarian and traditionalist governments came to power in the Soviet Union, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Hungary, and Austria, and a quasi-Fascist government formed in Rumania.

If you are a true follower of Barry Goldwater, then you're aware that he sounded the strongest and earliest warning that the GOP was headed down the authoritarian path by letting the likes of Falwell and Robertson take over the party. And you would also know that one of Goldwater's closest friends and confidants was John W. Dean. Dean has linked extensive studies on authoritarianism and the how authoritarians have taken over the Republican Party.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
John W. Dean

The most reasonable explanation I've seen is from psychological studies; liberals believe people are basically good, and conservatives believe people are basically evil.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater

Ref.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/02/27/world/soviet-conservatives-try-to-turn-back-the-clock-on-gorbachev-s-policies.html
http://bostonreview.net/BR28.3/gleason.html
Click to expand...

Much respect for you brother .. but JFK was not a liberal. He was a centrist.

He had to be dragged in to the civil rights fight by his brother.

He was a centrist, much like Obama, and centrists do not do causes.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
For anyone to say that Obama is a centrist, has a hole in his head. All one has to do is to look at his voting record to see how far-left he is.
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The far left in America boarded Bobby Kennedy's funeral train and they have not been heard from since...

You may not be old enough to know, but it's not a valid excuse...educate yourself...
 
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