Terrible news for the Creation Science museum (and Republicans)

Cypress said:
abiogenesis is not a hypothesis, that is why it is not falsifiable.

Abiogenesis is a fact, by the standards of science.

Self-replicating cells really did emerge from a pre-biotic soup in the remote past, and this can be demostrated by fossil evidence and isotopic data.

Abiogenesis actually happened, so no one is wasting their time trying to falsify it.

Scientists should ultimately be able to devise experiments to corroborate or refute the proposed hypothetical mechanisms for abiogenesis, aka the RNA hypothesis, the metabolism-first hypothesis, etc.
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Hmmm...not a bioscientist, but that's deductive reasoning to answer the question "How did life begin on Earth?" It's possible aliens from the dying inner core of our galaxy's stars once visited the sterile Earth 3.5B years ago, looked around a bit, dumped their bacteria-laden waste and left never to return.

Obviously that begs the question similar to atheists asking "who made God?" since the question of the origin of life in our galaxy still remains an unanswered question even if it was space alien shit that began life on Earth itself.

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/science/kring/epo_web/impact_cratering/origin_of_life/index.html
 
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Cypress said:
I wiah I had not mentioned Karl Popper several months ago, becasuse now you decided to latch on to his philosophy of science and make it your religion, and Popper your deity.
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Please don't. I never heard of Popper until you mentioned him in this thread. INT is intelligent, but insane. Just because he latches onto something as mentally ill people often do, shouldn't cause intelligent and sane people from open discussion on anything that interests them.

If you'd never mentioned Popper, I might have never looked him up.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Even my own personal theory,

that the universe and all that exists within it are merely the result of the random confluence of sub atomic particles in the vacuum of infinite space,

cannot explain the source of the sub-atomic particles.

The big bang's initial super-mass had to itself have a source before exploding into an infinite expansion which is the universe as it exists today.
And what came before that?

We as a species haven't the bio/chemical/mechanical computing power to figure that out, obviously.
We can only think in time -relative terms.

But we've been all too good, it seems,
at making shit up.

The Talmud.
The Bible.
The Koran.
The Internet.
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I wonder if asking what came before the big bang is even the right question to ask.

Time did not exist before the big bang. Time requires matter, motion, energy, entropy. None of which existed prior to the expansion of spacetime.

It is plausible there was no "before" time prior to the inflationary period, therefore it seems like it does not make sense to ask what came before.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Hmmm...not a bioscientist, but that's deductive reasoning to answer the question "How did life begin on Earth?" It's possible aliens from the dying inner core of our galaxy's stars once visited the sterile Earth 3.5B years ago, looked around a bit, dumped their bacteria-laden waste and left never to return.

Obviously that begs the question similar to atheists asking "who made God?" since the question of the origin of life in our galaxy still remains an unanswered question even if it was space alien shit that began life on Earth itself.

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/science/kring/epo_web/impact_cratering/origin_of_life/index.html
Click to expand...

Good point. At this point, there is no way to rule out life was seeded here.

There is some speculation life on earth came from Mars via meteorites, as Mars was probably hospitable to life 3.5 billion years ago.

I am open to the possibility we may never know
 
Cypress said:
I wonder if asking what came before the big bang is even the right question to ask.

Time did not exist before the big bang. Time requires matter, motion, energy, entropy. None of which existed prior to the expansion of spacetime.

It is plausible there was no "before" time prior to the inflationary period, therefore it seems like it does not make sense to ask what came before.
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Common English lacks words to describe "before time began" resulting in the descriptive problems you mention.

Related to that is the concept of "Eternal" as opposed to "forever". The latter term is time-related, but eternal is extratemporal.
 
Cypress said:
Good point. At this point, there is no way to rule out life was seeded here.

There is some speculation life on earth came from Mars via meteorites, as Mars was probably hospitable to life 3.5 billion years ago.

I am open to the possibility we may never know
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Agreed. It's possible life began on Mars and was transported here naturally or unnaturally by unknown forces. Again, despite the complaints of some members, it all goes under the file heading of "UNKNOWN".
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Common English lacks words to describe "before time began" resulting in the descriptive problems you mention.

Related to that is the concept of "Eternal" as opposed to "forever". The latter term is time-related, but eternal is extratemporal.
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I agree. The limitations of language place us at a disadvantage to even cogently discuss some of the deeper mysteries of physics and cosmology.

It really all has to be communicated in the language of higher mathematics.
 
Cypress said:
I agree. The limitations of language place us at a disadvantage to even cogently discuss some of the deeper mysteries of physics and cosmology.

It really all has to be communicated in the language of higher mathematics.
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Agreed....and if that math goes higher than algebra and a little Trig, I'm out. :)

Most of my math is formulas such as F = MA, about as high as I go but mostly Time Distance equations and fuel burn per hour or mile.
 
Cypress said:
I wonder if asking what came before the big bang is even the right question to ask.

Time did not exist before the big bang. Time requires matter, motion, energy, entropy. None of which existed prior to the expansion of spacetime.

It is plausible there was no "before" time prior to the inflationary period, therefore it seems like it does not make sense to ask what came before.
Click to expand...

I see time merely as a reference for what occurs before and after.
If there indeed was a big bang, there was a time before the big bang, even if it had no reference with anything we can imagine.
Was there a great void? Then what came before that?
These are things that we can't seem to mentally visualize.
 
Cypress said:
abiogenesis is not a hypothesis, that is why it is not falsifiable.

Abiogenesis is a fact, by the standards of science.

Self-replicating cells really did emerge from a pre-biotic soup in the remote past, and this can be demostrated by fossil evidence and isotopic data.

Abiogenesis actually happened, so no one is wasting their time trying to falsify it.

Scientists should ultimately be able to devise experiments to corroborate or refute the proposed hypothetical mechanisms for abiogenesis, aka the RNA hypothesis, the metabolism-first hypothesis, etc.
Click to expand...

You have fossilized cells?

Can we see them?
 
Darth Omar said:
The word abiogenesis denotes life arising out of lifeless matter—somehow or other.

You have faith that it really happened that way, right?
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How can I have a faith in it? That doesn't even make any sense. I don't know how it happened. But I DO know it had origin(s) on Earth. An origin could be from aliens seeding Earth. That as a valid theory as others.
 
Darth Omar said:
You have fossilized cells?

Can we see them?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a record of ancient single celled archaeon, cyanobacteria, and prokaryotes in Earth's fossil record. This is corroborated in some cases by isotopic data

It is shocking that anyone who wants to be taken seriously in a discussion of life's origins would be oblivious to that scientific fact.
 
AProudLefty said:
How can I have a faith in it? That doesn't even make any sense. I don't know how it happened. But I DO know it had origin(s) on Earth. An origin could be from aliens seeding Earth. That as a valid theory as others.
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He's just trying - in a really forced kind of way - to make it sound like as much of a religion as actual religion.

People don't worship or have "faith" in anything related to abiogenesis. It's just a fact that life arose at some point. And probably many points. It isn't that mystical - the ability to replicate is all that's required.
 
Darth Omar said:
You have fossilized cells?

Can we see them?
Click to expand...

Cypress said:
Yes, there is a record of ancient single celled archaeon, cyanobacteria, and prokaryotes in Earth's fossil record. This is corroborated in some cases by isotopic data

It is shocking that anyone who wants to be taken seriously in a discussion of life's origins would be oblivious to that scientific fact.
Click to expand...

"one particular group of bacteria, the cyanobacteria or "blue-green algae," have left a fossil record that extends far back into the Precambrian - the oldest cyanobacteria-like fossils known are nearly 3.5 billion years old, among the oldest fossils currently known."
https://ucmp.berkeley.edu/bacteria/...r group of,the oldest fossils currently known.
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