Time to repeal Helms-Burton.

[Socrtease]

This law forbids the US from normalizing relations with Cuba while a Castro is still in charge. Well that looks to be the reality of the Cuban leadership for a while. So it is time to expunge this legislation from the books and get on with the business of letting Americans do business with and in Cuba.

 

[Annie]

This law forbids the US from normalizing relations with Cuba while a Castro is still in charge. Well that looks to be the reality of the Cuban leadership for a while. So it is time to expunge this legislation from the books and get on with the business of letting Americans do business with and in Cuba.

That I can agree with.

 

[charver]

Who exactly is still arguing for it?

I can't say i've ever seen anyone seriously advocating it on here. Considering some of the 'interesting' views normally expressed round these parts, that would seem to be somewhat unusual.

 

[Canceled2]

That I can agree with.

Doing business with Cuba means supplying the government with valuable foreign monetary units, while the Cuban government only allows their citizens to own and trade in worthless cuban pesos. It means we will allow and encourage the support of an oppressive government.

 

[charver]

Well, i have to conclude that if ID is arguing for it then the rest of you must obviously be wrong.

Let the ban continue...as it has been so successful.

 

[Canceled2]

Well, i have to conclude that if ID is arguing for it then the rest of you must obviously be wrong.

Let the ban continue...as it has been so successful.

I simply layed out the facts Charver...It is a fact that the Cuban government does not allow their citizens to hang onto any kind of foreign monetary unit and instead horde them all for themselves. This is oppressive and if you think it should be supported then you may certainly do so. Perhaps our doing business with them will suddenly make the Cuban government allow their citizens to be happy and accumulate wealth, but I think they will simply continue to accumulate it for themselves at a better pace.


Still smarting from your last broken heart I see.

 

[Socrtease]

I simply layed out the facts Charver...It is a fact that the Cuban government does not allow their citizens to hang onto any kind of foreign monetary unit and instead horde them all for themselves. This is oppressive and if you think it should be supported then you may certainly do so. Perhaps our doing business with them will suddenly make the Cuban government allow their citizens to be happy and accumulate wealth, but I think they will simply continue to accumulate it for themselves at a better pace.


Still smarting from your last broken heart I see.

Our own country has, for the last 3 decades said that trade with communists is the only sure way to advance freedom in that country. It is the reason that China has MFN status. We have traded with the Soviet Union before their collapse, we have traded with the Vietnamese which killed close to 60,000 US service men. If it is OK for those countries, there is no logical argument that it is not also ok to trade with Cuba. We have to get over the fact that our invasion of Cuba was repelled, and that Castro has successfully thumbed his nose at us for the last 50 years. The embargo has failed, every other country in the free world trades with Cuba, they travel there, spend their tourist money there, buy their cigars and their rum. It is a failed policy that for some reason many Conservatives want to hold on to.

 

[charver]

I simply layed out the facts Charver...It is a fact that the Cuban government does not allow their citizens to hang onto any kind of foreign monetary unit and instead horde them all for themselves. This is oppressive and if you think it should be supported then you may certainly do so. Perhaps our doing business with them will suddenly make the Cuban government allow their citizens to be happy and accumulate wealth, but I think they will simply continue to accumulate it for themselves at a better pace.


Still smarting from your last broken heart I see.

And i'm just saying that you're entirely right.

Looking at the law, it is clear to everybody that it has had the desired effect. Hasn't it?

 

[Socrtease]

And i'm just saying that you're entirely right.

Looking at the law, it is clear to everybody that it has had the desired effect. Hasn't it?

Absolutely, the Communist government of Cuba collapsed almost immediately.

 

[Canceled2]

Our own country has, for the last 3 decades said that trade with communists is the only sure way to advance freedom in that country. It is the reason that China has MFN status. We have traded with the Soviet Union before their collapse, we have traded with the Vietnamese which killed close to 60,000 US service men. If it is OK for those countries, there is no logical argument that it is not also ok to trade with Cuba. We have to get over the fact that our invasion of Cuba was repelled, and that Castro has successfully thumbed his nose at us for the last 50 years. The embargo has failed, every other country in the free world trades with Cuba, they travel there, spend their tourist money there, buy their cigars and their rum. It is a failed policy that for some reason many Conservatives want to hold on to.

Hey, liberals want to support and aid an opressive government while dissident prisoners rot in prisons and the populace are kept from accumualting wealth I say party on; buy your rum, cigars, and screw the common people of Cuba so the Cuban government can continue their opression. Just do so knowing what your money and support really accomplish.

 

[Annie]

Hey, liberals want to support and aid an opressive government while dissident prisoners rot in prisons and the populace are kept from accumualting wealth I say party on; buy your rum, cigars, and screw the common people of Cuba so the Cuban government can continue their opression. Just do so knowing what your money and support really accomplish.

Nothing has been accomplished by the blockade or the law against visiting. There comes a point to change tactics.

 

[charver]

Hey, liberals want to support and aid an opressive government while dissident prisoners rot in prisons and the populace are kept from accumualting wealth I say party on; buy your rum, cigars, and screw the common people of Cuba so the Cuban government can continue their opression. Just do so knowing what your money and support really accomplish.

Maybe some of the guards at Guantanamo can relay that message of hope to the oppressed Cuban people?

 

[uscitizen]

Anything with Helms name on it should br repealed.

 

[Socrtease]

Hey, liberals want to support and aid an opressive government while dissident prisoners rot in prisons and the populace are kept from accumualting wealth I say party on; buy your rum, cigars, and screw the common people of Cuba so the Cuban government can continue their opression. Just do so knowing what your money and support really accomplish.

The above can be said this very moment about China and it was the conservatives that first pushed towards normalization with China and it was conservatives that pushed through MFN with China. Quit pretending that it is ONLY Cuba and ONLY Liberals support policies of normalization. You look stupid when you do it.

 

[Beefy]

Hey, liberals want to support and aid an opressive government while dissident prisoners rot in prisons and the populace are kept from accumualting wealth I say party on; buy your rum, cigars, and screw the common people of Cuba so the Cuban government can continue their opression. Just do so knowing what your money and support really accomplish.

So, let me get this straight. We are decreasing the level of oppression in Cuba by choking back American trade with them. The minute we start buying their rum, they lose freedoms.

You have no idea what your talking about. American currency was only banned there recently in retaliation for your beloved W's actions restricting trade and visitation by Cuban American families. When I was there in 2003, the only currency on the street was American money, and I'm sure thats how the black market operates now. An influx of American money in Cuba empowers the people. By keeping them poor and destitute like your idealogical and failed ideas do, you keep regimes like Castro's relatively strong.

Its your ideas that have kept the communists in power in Cuba. So why don't you think about the results of your policy ideas instead of letting right wing hacks force feed them to you while you spout bleary eyed nonsense all over the board.

Nimrod.

 

[uscitizen]

So, let me get this straight. We are decreasing the level of oppression in Cuba by choking back American trade with them. The minute we start buying their rum, they lose freedoms.

You have no idea what your talking about. American currency was only banned there recently in retaliation for your beloved W's actions restricting trade and visitation by Cuban American families. When I was there in 2003, the only currency on the street was American money, and I'm sure thats how the black market operates now. An influx of American money in Cuba empowers the people. By keeping them poor and destitute like your idealogical and failed ideas do, you keep regimes like Castro's relatively strong.

Its your ideas that have kept the communists in power in Cuba. So why don't you think about the results of your policy ideas instead of letting right wing hacks force feed them to you while you spout bleary eyed nonsense all over the board.

Nimrod.

Yeah I refurbished a couple of hundred PC's that got sent to cuba in 2001.
I know money was carried there by the church folks for the church folks down there. Lots of tylenol, and other various over the counter medicines as well.
One entire sea/air container full of stuff.

 

[Socrtease]

So, let me get this straight. We are decreasing the level of oppression in Cuba by choking back American trade with them. The minute we start buying their rum, they lose freedoms.

You have no idea what your talking about. American currency was only banned there recently in retaliation for your beloved W's actions restricting trade and visitation by Cuban American families. When I was there in 2003, the only currency on the street was American money, and I'm sure thats how the black market operates now. An influx of American money in Cuba empowers the people. By keeping them poor and destitute like your idealogical and failed ideas do, you keep regimes like Castro's relatively strong.

Its your ideas that have kept the communists in power in Cuba. So why don't you think about the results of your policy ideas instead of letting right wing hacks force feed them to you while you spout bleary eyed nonsense all over the board.

Nimrod.

But for people like ID, ideology is more important than reality. Pragmatism is a bad word. Many of the conservatives that support the continued embargo denounce pragmatism because it chooses what works over what is ideologically sound. Moderation and Pragmatism are disliked by the fringe on both sides.

 

[uscitizen]

But for people like ID, ideology is more important than reality. Pragmatism is a bad word. Many of the conservatives that support the continued embargo denounce pragmatism because it chooses what works over what is ideologically sound. Moderation and Pragmatism are disliked by the fringe on both sides.

Well said.

 

[Canceled2]

Nothing has been accomplished by the blockade or the law against visiting. There comes a point to change tactics.

I disagree, I think that in another 10 to 20 years Castro's reign would be over. That said, my point is that allowing trade with Cuba will only further empower an oppressive regime that has brutally treated its people and continues to oppress them. I thought libs were against supporting such things?

 

[Beefy]

I disagree, I think that in another 10 to 20 years Castro's reign would be over. That said, my point is that allowing trade with Cuba will only further empower an oppressive regime that has brutally treated its people and continues to oppress them. I thought libs were against supporting such things?

No, it would empower the people. Castro's regime has remained intact and clenching power for 50 years because of your beloved embargo. It seems you are the one who wishes to keep them in power.

Numbnut.