I am leaving the Republican Party

Watermarx said:
What if the south started voting for the Constitution party? Seriously, if the south breaks away the Republican coalition is going to have to change dramatically. Not to mention that southern reps make up a majority of the house of reps right now. How are you going to get the majority, which is southern, to change away from a southern agenda?
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again waterworld... no one is suggesting that Reps can win without the south as a whole. But you are kidding yourself if you think the entire south votes strictly on religious issues only. You show them a true fiscal conservative and they will trend in that direction.... Reps, Moderates and Independents.
 
If the Religious Right began leaving the GOP in droves, WM, the biggest concern would be that the Democrats would begin running evangelicals to exploit that. It is much more likely that a mass exodus from the GOP would lead to a more religious Democratic Party than a viable Constitution Party. While I wouldn't necessarily dislike that arrangement, since it would put everything I hate on one side and everything I love on the other, I would assume you would have some problems with it.
 
Epicurus said:
If the Religious Right began leaving the GOP in droves, WM, the biggest concern would be that the Democrats would begin running evangelicals to exploit that. It is much more likely that a mass exodus from the GOP would lead to a more religious Democratic Party than a viable Constitution Party. While I wouldn't necessarily dislike that arrangement, since it would put everything I hate on one side and everything I love on the other, I would assume you would have some problems with it.
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Honestly I'd love it. If the south were politically isolated and the Republicans and Democrats ran against each other in the other parts of the country it'd be awesome.

Then again, in close elections they'd still have massive sway because they could tell their electors who to vote for.

EDIT: OH. I didn't read that right.

No, I wouldn't like the Democrats to dominate the south again. Dominating the south is like dealing with the devil. They will take complete and total control over your party.
 
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Superfreak said:
again waterworld... no one is suggesting that Reps can win without the south as a whole. But you are kidding yourself if you think the entire south votes strictly on religious issues only. You show them a true fiscal conservative and they will trend in that direction.... Reps, Moderates and Independents.
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Well I'm used to living in Mississippi, which is the most RR state in the nation. It is kind of scary to live here, and the rest of the south isn't entirely like this.
 
Watermarx said:
Honestly I'd love it. If the south were politically isolated and the Republicans and Democrats ran against each other in the other parts of the country it'd be awesome.

Then again, in close elections they'd still have massive sway because they could tell their electors who to vote for.

EDIT: OH. I didn't read that right.

No, I wouldn't like the Democrats to dominate the south again. Dominating the south is like dealing with the devil. They will take complete and total control over your party.
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Epic, if this happened, I would be a Republican. Don't scare me like this.
 
Yeah I was wondering when you would catch that. I read your response and was like "What?".

And Alabama is terrifyingly religious too. I'm not sure there are any more religious states than AL and Mississippi. My girlfriend freaked out this weekend because she found out I don't observe Easter. She asked if she could come with me to Easter service with my family and I just burst out laughing. I told her that I have been in a church twice in my life (once for HS graduation and once when I broke into one as a teenager with some friends), that we had never observed Easter in my house as a kid, and that my parents were out of town at the lakehouse anyway so it wouldn't happen even if I wanted it to. That really rocked her world. Apparently the idea of someone sleeping in Easter Sunday is so far out the norm here that it is frightening.
 
Watermarx said:
Epic, if this happened, I would be a Republican. Don't scare me like this.
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I'm just saying it's a much more likely result of what we're wishing for (the exodus of the RR from the GOP). I think. Maybe. It's a hard thing to predict based on the past. It would be interesting to watch lifelong RR voters struggle to vote Democrat or waste their vote on a third party. They did vote third party en masse in '68 for Wallace though, and before that for Strom Thurmond, so who knows. Then again Carter was a religious Dem and he did okay. It's really a tossup I guess.
 
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Bush actually managed to outspend the previous TWO Democrat presidents combined. To now try and claim his presidency was a "time of limited government" is some kind of a joke, right? I mean, do you pinheads really think that is going to fly?

We've not had ANY limit in government in the past 70 years.

It's really hard to say how well limited government might work, because it requires a politically unpopular position of slashing the budget and making draconian cuts in social services, and no politician who has won an election and gone to Washington in the past couple of decades, has had the balls to even suggest such a thing.

I read idiotic statements, like: "Limited government is not going to be part of America ever again." ...I think... What goes up, must come down. You simply can not continue to expand the size and scope of government indefinitely. Especially when you have no money, and everything has to be borrowed from China.
 
Epicurus said:
Yeah I was wondering when you would catch that. I read your response and was like "What?".

And Alabama is terrifyingly religious too. I'm not sure there are any more religious states than AL and Mississippi. My girlfriend freaked out this weekend because she found out I don't observe Easter. She asked if she could come with me to Easter service with my family and I just burst out laughing. I told her that I have been in a church twice in my life (once for HS graduation and once when I broke into one as a teenager with some friends), that we had never observed Easter in my house as a kid, and that my parents were out of town at the lakehouse anyway so it wouldn't happen even if I wanted it to. That really rocked her world. Apparently the idea of someone sleeping in Easter Sunday is so far out the norm here that it is frightening.
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In our county, we went to the Pizza place on Good Friday. I've never, and I really mean never, seen it that empty. We were the only people in the place. It took a bit before I realized why it was so empty.

On Easter we saw the overflow crowd at the local church and my wife actually was surprised at the amount of people. I just laughed. Growing up in uber-religious churches has made me immune to it, but it's there in our area of Colorado.
 
I have a strong loyalty to the Democratic party that could break very easily.

There are pretty much two situations in which I would switch to Republican. The first is if the Democrats take over the south and become a religo-populist party. The second is if the enviromentalists took over the party, banned vaccines, used public funds for acupuncture, banned nuclear (fission and fusion - seriously, environmentalists are opposed to fusion) power, erected massive tariffs to stop "globalization", and recognized great apes as human beings, etc, etc...
 
Epicurus said:
Yeah I was wondering when you would catch that. I read your response and was like "What?".

And Alabama is terrifyingly religious too. I'm not sure there are any more religious states than AL and Mississippi. My girlfriend freaked out this weekend because she found out I don't observe Easter. She asked if she could come with me to Easter service with my family and I just burst out laughing. I told her that I have been in a church twice in my life (once for HS graduation and once when I broke into one as a teenager with some friends), that we had never observed Easter in my house as a kid, and that my parents were out of town at the lakehouse anyway so it wouldn't happen even if I wanted it to. That really rocked her world. Apparently the idea of someone sleeping in Easter Sunday is so far out the norm here that it is frightening.
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In my "*** high school alumni" group that most of my friends are in the two most popular related groups are "Pro-life!", "I bet we can find 1 million Christians!", and "STOP GAY MARRIAGE!". They're good people as long as you avoid politics.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
That's what the Tea Parties all over the US are all about on the 15th. Less taxes and smaller government.
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Right now, we need more tax and less government, sorry, people, we have to pay for all the playing we have done in the world!

The 50's what some consider the most prosperous times in America the tax rate was 90% and we didn't have the military complex we now have!

Higher taxes need to be in our future for awhile.
 
Watermarx said:
I have a strong loyalty to the Democratic party that could break very easily.
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But is your loyalty to the ideology or the party?

Desh for example, is quite clearly loyal to the party, indeed the D-Label itself. When a Democratic policy is not liberal, she might spend a line wishing it were otherwise but she would still support it and defend it.

Contrast that with say, Onceler or Dungheap, whose loyalty is quite clearly to liberalism and not to the Democratic Party itself. Unlike Desh, they will spend a while criticizing non-liberal platforms of the Democratic Party.

If the Republican Party became more in-tune with liberalism, I could see you switching. If the Republicans were the ones advocating greater governmental theft from people's paychecks and legal marriage for buttpirates then I could certainly see you voting Republican.
 
Norman Paperman said:
Take a look in the mirror you partisan twit, both dominant parties are jokes, mere shadows of formally decent ideals and promise. Their interest no longer lies with what is best for this country and it's people, it lies with getting power, keeping power, and getting rich while doing both. When you learn that one, you may finally get "It."
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Give the man a cigar!
 
So what I read is that there are some who would like to see anyone religious not to have a voice in government?
 
leaningright said:
So what I read is that there are some who would like to see anyone religious not to have a voice in government?
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You clearly have some reading problems since no one, except maybe Watermark, has suggested that.

I wholeheartedly believe, however, that the religious community should have much less power over government than they currently do. Their current influence over politics, even now under Obama, is considerably more than their numbers should give them. Religious people are disproportionately more likely to vote than other segments of the population, and as a result they are overrepresented in legislatures and consequently in the policies enacted.
 
Epicurus said:
You clearly have some reading problems since no one, except maybe Watermark, has suggested that.

I wholeheartedly believe, however, that the religious community should have much less power over government than they currently do. Their current influence over politics, even now under Obama, is considerably more than their numbers should give them. Religious people are disproportionately more likely to vote than other segments of the population, and as a result they are overrepresented in legislatures and consequently in the policies enacted.
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OK......sounds good to me. Sometimes I get caught up in reading all the "South/religious" bashing and don't pay attention to who is doing the posting. As a religious person I do worry that we are moving toward a European type of society, socially speaking, which I do not want to live in at all.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Which states are you speaking of?

I believe Bush was a conservative. I believe that he reacted after 9/11. The PA, as I said, was a huge misadventure that has now allowed exactly what I predicted i.e. given a way for government to gain even more power over the lives of the private sector and individual. That said, I think he was between a rock and a hard spot...he should have gone with the hard spot, rounded up foreign nationals from known terrorist sponsoring states and shipped them home; closed our borders to them until said nations got terrorism under control in their own nations. If he had he would have spared the constitution being irreversibly weakened, though he would have been just as hated for this action too.
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Ice Dancer is a Christocrat. She believes in the Wedge! She supports turning this country into a Theocracy. She will be the one stoking the fires to burn all heathens at the stake. She is also what Michael Parenti calls a SuperPatriot! She loved Bush and probably misses him dearly!
 
leaningright said:
So what I read is that there are some who would like to see anyone religious not to have a voice in government?
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I dont know if anyone wants it to that extreme. Like anything, religious groups are predominantly people who wish to believe as they choose without government interference. Many may advocate certain positions such as gay marriage or abortion, but are tolerant enough to listen to opposing views. Then you have the extremists.... THOSE are the ones that I personally would like to hear less from. I still respect their right to voice their opinions, but in my opinion, they have far too great a grip on control of the Republican party.

That is one reason I am not a Rep. The other is that they lost their way when it comes to fiscal responsibility.
 
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