Obama: Bush gave iraqis opportunity for democracy

Yurt said:
i see...so bush's mess and "lies" resulted in democracy, an extraordinary achievement....

bet you wish your messes and "lies" resulted in president obama saying "this is an extraordinary achievement"
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curious onceler.....are you going to ignore this or address it? seems i have to keep close tabs on you....else you will call me a liar...

i think you should start a thread about your political positions btw...it would save you the time and effort of complaining and calling everyone a liar who gets your political thoughts wrong.....

just do it
 
bravo said:
You don't have a freekin' clue what the state of the world or any country in the world will be 30 years in the future....guess all you want, I'm not the least bit interested in what you guess or some little gypsy reading someone's palm guesses.....
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if you don't want to read my posts,bravo, please don't. I certainly am not forcing you to. fly fly.
 
I call you a liar because you lie, and admit that you lie.

I have addressed that point multiple times on this thread. Please read.
 
Onceler said:
Exactly, bravo. Thanks for pointing that out.

So, I assume you give LBJ "credit" for the "great success" of Vietnam?
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Yeah, we'll give credit where credit is due....

1.1 Million+ DEAD and 600,000 wounded....and LOST

So ...anything that ensued in Vietnam after that is due to the winning forces and what they did in the next 30 years....

Does that about right ? I don't remember the actual figures....
 
maineman said:
if you don't want to read my posts,bravo, please don't. I certainly am not forcing you to. fly fly.
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I know what Vietnam is and its place in the world...whats your point...

THE WINNERS are responsible for how that country turned out....the United States lost ....maybe you guys need to brush up on the War....
and no one can makes claims about what MIGHT have taken place with a US victory....or a Chinese involvment, or any other scenario...

YOur guesses aren't worth a warm bucket of spit...
 
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bravo said:
I know what Vietnam is and its place in the world...whats your point...

THE WINNERS are responsible for how that country turned out....the United States lost ....maybe you guys need to brush up on the War....
and no one can makes claims about what MIGHT have taken place with a US victory....or a Chinese involvment, or any other scenario...

YOur guesses aren't worth a warm bucket of spit...
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again...you claim we LOST the war in Vietnam...and I ask you how you would have liked it to turn out if we had won.... would you want Vietnam to be a peaceful nation, a trading partner? would you like to have seen them abandon any attempts to foster communist insurgencies throughout the region? What would a victory in Vietnam look like today, and how many more thousands of American lives would you have been willing to spend in order to get that result?
 
maineman said:
again...you claim we LOST the war in Vietnam...and I ask you how you would have liked it to turn out if we had won.... would you want Vietnam to be a peaceful nation, a trading partner? would you like to have seen them abandon any attempts to foster communist insurgencies throughout the region? What would a victory in Vietnam look like today, and how many more thousands of American lives would you have been willing to spend in order to get that result?
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I don't "claim" we lost the war, its a historical fact....

The Vietnamese Communists banned all other political parties, forced public servants and military personnel of the Republic of Vietnam into reeducation camps. The government also embarked on a mass campaign of collectivization of farms and factories.

I suspect that many lives were lost in "reeducation" camps and I'm partial to capitalism rather than collectivization of industry....

Millions of people fled the country in crudely-built boats, creating an international humanitarian crisis.

I know thousands of lives were lost by these people fleeing the Communists....

In 86 the Communists let up on the folks and adopted a semi-capitalistic economy...private ownership of farms and companies, deregulation and foreign investment were encouraged.

So who can really say if lives would have been saved and this capitalistic economy might have developed sooner...we can only speculate....but we know...the people are far from free in Vietnam....
 
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Vietnam was truly the War that should not have involved this country....we went to bail out the French and they scrammed and like fools we stayed for absolutely no good reason....
Ho actually admired the US. He modeled his own Declaration of Independence after ours...he wanted to be a friend and ally of this country....but he wanted us gone more...

I was a Democrat in those days and LBJ made me see the light...I can't imagine a bigger asshole in the White House than he was...dishonest, arrogant, crude and lacked even an iota of ethics....now I see, a typical Democrat.
 
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bravo said:
Vietnam was truly the War that should not have involved this country....we went to bail out the French and they scrammed and like fools we stayed for absolutely no good reason....
Ho actually admired the US. He modeled his own Declaration of Independence after ours...he wanted to be a friend and ally of this country....but he wanted us gone more...

I was a Democrat in those days and LBJ made me see the light...I can't imagine a bigger asshole in the White House than he was...dishonest, arrogant, crude and lacked even an iota of ethics....now I see, a typical Democrat.
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So why did you support another texican for president?
 
....um...

obama said bush's policies are an extraordinary achievement.....

unless you libs want to claim that bush had nothing to do with this achievement....

and thus....nothing to do with anything about iraq....

lets have some honesty here folks
 
bravo said:
Vietnam was truly the War that should not have involved this country....we went to bail out the French and they scrammed and like fools we stayed for absolutely no good reason....
Ho actually admired the US. He modeled his own Declaration of Independence after ours...he wanted to be a friend and ally of this country....but he wanted us gone more...

I was a Democrat in those days and LBJ made me see the light...I can't imagine a bigger asshole in the White House than he was...dishonest, arrogant, crude and lacked even an iota of ethics....now I see, a typical Democrat.
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Funny, I was a Republican and Nixon changed my mind. I was no big fan of LBJ, wasn't he President by default?
 
"obama said bush's policies are an extraordinary achievement....."

Followed by...

"lets have some honesty here folks "

Amazing...
 
From my perspective .. and with respect to Obama supporters .. it is disingenuous to suggest that Obama was not praising Bush for Iraq. This is much like his comment that the surge was an accomplishment "beyond our wildest dreams."

That won't be the last really stupid thing Obama says.

Obama is just doing his centrist thing and playing both sides of the fence.
 
blackascoal said:
From my perspective .. and with respect to Obama supporters .. it is disingenuous to suggest that Obama was not praising Bush for Iraq. This is much like his comment that the surge was an accomplishment "beyond our wildest dreams."

That won't be the last really stupid thing Obama says.

Obama is just doing his centrist thing and playing both sides of the fence.
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I respectfully disagree with that assessment. He's CIC now, BAC, and he's speaking to the troops. He's essentially saying "job well done."

That's not the kind of moment or audience where you're looking to get political, and start trashing Bush's policies and implying their effort wasn't worth it.

Beyond that, if one good thing could come out of Iraq, it would be a democratically elected gov't. I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.
 
Onceler said:
I respectfully disagree with that assessment. He's CIC now, BAC, and he's speaking to the troops. He's essentially saying "job well done."

That's not the kind of moment or audience where you're looking to get political, and start trashing Bush's policies and implying their effort wasn't worth it.

Beyond that, if one good thing could come out of Iraq, it would be a democratically elected gov't. I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.
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My brother, what comes out of our invasion of Iraq was the empowerment of Iran and a shameful American legacy.

Obama could have said "job well done" without implying America, any part of it, gave the Iraqis the opportunity for democracy. I'm sure many Iraqis saw that as a slap in the face .. and I'm sure there are other muslim countries wondering if Obama wants to extend that "opportunity" to them.

I support his efforts to mend fences globally, but he often says really dumb shit that leave people scratching their heads.
 
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