Obama: Bush gave iraqis opportunity for democracy

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Cheered wildly by U.S. troops, President Barack Obama flew unannounced into Iraq on Tuesday and promptly declared it was time for Iraqis to "take responsibility for their country" after America's commitment of six years and thousands of lives.

"You have given Iraq the opportunity to stand on its own as a democratic country," the president said as he made a brief inspection of a war he opposed as candidate and now vows to end as commander in chief. "That is an extraordinary achievement."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008999046_apmlobamairaq.html
 
Looks to me like he said the troops gave them the chance for democracy, not Bush. Maybe one could credit Bush indirectly but I don't think you'll convince a lot of the folks here that that is what Obama meant.
 
Hey Yurt- according to your arguments on the other thread, should you be saying "Bush and Congressional Democrats," instead of just Bush?
 
if it was the troops and onceler seems to agree....then bush cannot be blamed for anything about iraq, it was the troops...they sent themselves...and they screwed up iraq

can't have it both ways
 
Onceler said:
Hey Yurt- according to your arguments on the other thread, should you be saying "Bush and Congressional Democrats," instead of just Bush?
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i wanted you to admit bush had nothing to do with iraq success to show what a hypocrite you are....

thank you
 
Onceler said:
LOL

Mr. double-standard strikes again. Party over country. Actually, Bush over party & country...
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you should stop talking about yourself....

you claim that it was the troops not bush who gave the iraqis the opportunity for democracy....yet you blame bush for any failure in iraq...that is a double standard and hypocrisy...

who sent the troops onceler? you all blame bush for invading iraq, yet now that obama says they have democracy you claim it was not bush...
 
Yurt said:
you should stop talking about yourself....

you claim that it was the troops not bush who gave the iraqis the opportunity for democracy....yet you blame bush for any failure in iraq...that is a double standard and hypocrisy...

who sent the troops onceler? you all blame bush for invading iraq, yet now that obama says they have democracy you claim it was not bush...
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Are you referring to leaning's post? Why do you keep lying, and putting words in my mouth?

Lies and "gotcha" set-ups are no substitute for facts & intelligent debate. If one good thing COULD come out of invading Iraq, it would be democracy & a better life for its people. No one will ever convince me that anything was worth the hudreds of thousands of innocents killed, millions displaced & other costs, however, especially when there were still options on the table.

Bush rushed to war, built on a case of lies & exaggerations. It's inexcusable. I don't know why you are working so hard to make sure that he is not accountable for that.
 
you said an honest lie...hence you disagree with my post/thread...:pke:

why exactly do you disagree with on my thread title? you still maintain it was ONLY bush who lied...you fail to mention anyone else...so i made nothing up about what you said, nice try
 
When I said "honest lie," I was making fun of you. The term you actually used originally to describe your own dishonesty was "honest deception," I believe.

Anyhoo, a lie is a lie is a lie.....
 
Onceler said:
When I said "honest lie," I was making fun of you. The term you actually used originally to describe your own dishonesty was "honest deception," I believe.

Anyhoo, a lie is a lie is a lie.....
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so i did not lie and you agree with my summation of what obama said....

you're all over the board on this one...you argue i am party over country, now you say you are just kidding about the honest lie....which is it?

if the iraqis have democracy has obama stated, does bush get any praise in the matter?
 
Obama's comment did indeed indirectly give Bush credit for "giving the Iraqis the opportunity for democracy" because if not for Bush, the troops would not be there.

But in the end, it's a remarkably stupid statement.

It's like saying we gave African slaves the opportunity to work, or we gave the American Indian the opportunity to go to school.

Most Iraqis would like the opportunity to show Bush personally how much they think of his opportunity.
 
Yurt said:
so i did not lie and you agree with my summation of what obama said....

you're all over the board on this one...you argue i am party over country, now you say you are just kidding about the honest lie....which is it?

if the iraqis have democracy has obama stated, does bush get any praise in the matter?
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My position has been consistent since October of 2002; I have not wavered.

Like I said, I was making fun of your "honest lies." These kinds of threads are kind of your m.o.; trying to "trick" people into admitting to some sort of hypocrisy. Kind of sad, actually.

Also like I said, democracy & a better life for Iraqis would be a wonderful thing to come out of this whole mess, and is something I hope for. However, the individual who lied, rushed to war on false pretenses & is directly responsible for so many deaths & refugees, being somehow deserving of "praise"?

Uh....no.
 
onceler: real simple -- does obama's comment give bush praise for the incredible achievement that iraqis have democracy?

you say i am trying to trap you, but it was obama who made the comment...even BAC admits obama indirectly gives bush credit, i fail to see why you have spent so much time arguing...and deflecting instead of commenting on obama's comment....and i have no idea what your position has been since 2002...but i can tell you are still stuck in the obsessive "everyone should know my stance" phase...
 
"onceler: real simple -- does obama's comment give bush praise for the incredible achievement that iraqis have democracy? "

No.
 
I wonder, in ten years, when Iraqi's use their voice to elect a Fundamentalist Islamic government, one that ally's itself with Iran, will you applaud this. It is not a matter of if, only when. They are a Shi'ite nation that will someday discover they have more in common with their Persian neighbors then they ever had with us. We have sown the wind.
 
Obama's comments don't say boo about Bush.

Personally, I could care less if Jeffersonian democracy blossoms like crocuses on the banks of the Euphrates...it still was not worth what we spent to buy it.
 
maineman said:
Obama's comments don't say boo about Bush.

Personally, I could care less if Jeffersonian democracy blossoms like crocuses on the banks of the Euphrates...it still was not worth what we spent to buy it.
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And I'm sure, just to be consistent, you feel the same way about Great Britain, South Korea, France, Italy, Bosnia, and other countries where the US shed blood in defense of, and the protection of allies and non allies alike....

And it was President Bush foreign policy that gave the Iraqis, in Obama's words,.... "the opportunity to stand on its own as a democratic country".....
 
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