60% of Americans did not go to college.

Walt said:
Lets say you put 8 years into the military, and lose $30k per year of potential extra income. That saving of $100k of debt just cost you $240k. I am not saying that the military is always this bad of a deal, but I am saying that sometimes it is a bad deal.

And it can be an amazingly liberal place. You get thrown in with people of all sorts of sexualities, and have to form a strong team with them.
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My oldest son did well in the Navy. He had a BS in electrical engineering and worked for WorldCom. We all know what happened to *them.* After losing his job when they folded, he ended up going into the Navy and began there as a lieutenant after going to officer school. He served six years on a nuclear sub and started a masters program while in there. He works as a senior engineer now in a nuclear power plant in Louisiana.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
My oldest son did well in the Navy. He had a BS in electrical engineering and worked for WorldCom. We all know what happened to *them.* After losing his job when they folded, he ended up going into the Navy and began there as a lieutenant after going to officer school. He served six years on a nuclear sub and started a masters program while in there. He works as a senior engineer now in a nuclear power plant in Louisiana.
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Sounds like a good deal.
 
Walt said:
Lets say you put 8 years into the military, and lose $30k per year of potential extra income. That saving of $100k of debt just cost you $240k. I am not saying that the military is always this bad of a deal, but I am saying that sometimes it is a bad deal.

And it can be an amazingly liberal place. You get thrown in with people of all sorts of sexualities, and have to form a strong team with them.
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Yes, leftists have infested just about every institution.

Your math is based on some pretty gratuitous assumptions.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Absolutely! My middle daughter changed careers after getting a degree in graphics design. She decided to follow her dream of becoming a vet tech. The only school in the area offering a two-year degree program in the field was Sanford-Brown. It cost her $30K to go there. She would come home pissed all the time because they'd show up for class but the instructor wouldn't. They had to take the same rigorous science courses that an RN takes -- microbiology, A&P, chemistry, etc., plus clinicals where they were supposed to get practical experience. Most of the other students ended up dropping out. She graduated with honors, and just finished paying off her student loan last year. I think where they live the average salary for a degreed vet tech is ~$20-24/hour. Not so much for going $30K in debt. I believe Sanford-Brown went out of business after ripping off thousands of students.
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yikes

I caution any young adult looking at these private, for profit vocational schools.

At least in California, I feel like public community colleges are one of the best bangs for the buck for both vocational training, and college-level academic coursework. Socialism works!!
 
Walt said:
Not to be rude, but you clearly missed something here. Read the title of the thread, "60% of Americans did not go to college." ALL THE LISTED BILLIONAIRES WENT TO COLLEGE. They all learned life changing things in college, and made life changing connections in college.

They did not get the degree, but no one argued that was important. It is the education that is important. The degree certainly helps to get a job, but it is different from the education.



I don't know. I cannot judge human beings on such little information. But I will say that someone with little education, who put little work into getting an education is almost certainly worse for the economy.

One of those kids has had a lot invested in him by society, and the other has not. Neither did anything to earn that investment. My question is why did the poor Black kid have so little invested in him?
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Fair point on your first part, however I believe the subject heading is incorrect. The linked article, if I'm reading it correctly, states the percentage of Americans with college degrees. One can still go to college and not get a degree. So to state everyone who doesn't have a degree did not attend college is not accurate.
 
Darth Omar said:
Yes, leftists have infested just about every institution.

Your math is based on some pretty gratuitous assumptions.
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Do you ever feel insecure about the fact that about 90% of people who spend more than 4 years in higher learning, (with lots of books, lots of different people, lots of exchanges of ideas, etc.) turn out liberal?

Like, FACTS make us liberal, dude.

Weird, huh?
 
Jerome said:
Reduce defense spending, abolish ICE, increase taxes on big tech and the very high income (above $450k) and a wealth tax, vis a vis Elizabeth Warren's plan.
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A.) I see college as an investment rather than a necessity.
B.) Speaking of necessities I think it's time to take better care of the elderly, disabled & homeless.
C.) I'd rather increase disability, social security & Federal funding for homeless shelters.
D.) Reducing defense spending can be decent, but what about China & Russia!?
E.) We get it you want to abolish ICE because you want to turn The USA into Latin America.
F.) Rich civilians should be taxed much more, agree there.
G.) Taxing big tech just hinders their progression & research. Or they pass on the costs to the consumer.
 
cawacko said:
I'm not exactly sure what you just said but...

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Jews were middle class mostly by the 1940s.
There was far more anti Semitism back then than anti Black sentiment now.

The idea that every group is equal is a flimsy concept.
 
Jan Sobieski said:
Jews were middle class mostly by the 1940s.
There was far more anti Semitism back then than anti Black sentiment now.

The idea that every group is equal is a flimsy concept.
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Ok. That's really irrelevant to what was being discussed however. (I gave an example with identity politics because many liberals relate to it but the reality is the race/ethnicity of the people in my example are irrelevant.)
 
Cypress said:
yikes

I caution any young adult looking at these private, for profit vocational schools.

At least in California, I feel like public community colleges are one of the best bangs for the buck for both vocational training, and college-level academic coursework. Socialism works!!
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Sure does! Yeah, I tried to dissuade her not because of the career field which is wonderful, but because that was the only school offering it. There were a couple students in my nursing class who had started out at that college and reported the same thing about the instructors not showing up, poorly-equipped labs, and the price tag for a two-year associates degree that cost less than half what S-B was charging.
 
BidenPresident said:
All Trump supporters. We can do better.

source: In 2019, 39.4% of naturalized citizens and 40.2% of children of the foreign-born population in the United States had a bachelor’s degree or higher"
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020/educational-attainment.html
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Naturalized citizens and foreign born population do not include "60% of Americans." This group has a higher level of college education than the population as a whole.

"From 2010 to 2019, the percentage of people age 25 and older with a bachelor's degree or higher jumped from 29.9% to 36.0%.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020/educational-attainment.html
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Sure does! Yeah, I tried to dissuade her not because of the career field which is wonderful, but because that was the only school offering it. There were a couple students in my nursing class who had started out at that college and reported the same thing about the instructors not showing up, poorly-equipped labs, and the price tag for a two-year associates degree that cost less than half what S-B was charging.
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Agreed. The private for-profit schools only exist because of federal loans and grants. They have their own accreditation agency because they have to be accredited to qualify for those funds. The accreditation agency is set up to make sure they qualify.

Unfortunately, many community colleges (and universities) have some of the same shortcomings although they have tougher accreditation standards. The accrediting agencies are big on student retention and the schools are big on growth and faculty are either sympathetic to or pressured by administrators to pass students to increase state funding. I have seen schools remove tougher courses from degree requirements and counseling centers steer students to the easier instructors.

Fields like nursing have to pass tests to get certified and those departments must make sure those students are learning.
 
Flash said:
Agreed. The private for-profit schools only exist because of federal loans and grants. They have their own accreditation agency because they have to be accredited to qualify for those funds. The accreditation agency is set up to make sure they qualify.

Unfortunately, many community colleges (and universities) have some of the same shortcomings although they have tougher accreditation standards. The accrediting agencies are big on student retention and the schools are big on growth and faculty are either sympathetic to or pressured by administrators to pass students to increase state funding. I have seen schools remove tougher courses from degree requirements and counseling centers steer students to the easier instructors.

Fields like nursing have to pass tests to get certified and those departments must make sure those students are learning.
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You're right. The NCLEX is an extremely difficult exam. The nursing programs have a vested interest in making sure a high percentage of the students pass on the first attempt. It's good advertising. Our instructor was one of the nurses involved in creating the questions on the NCLEX so she gave us practice exams to study on. Even so, of the 37 ppl in my program, 13 didn't pass the first time.

I chose my college by calling several hospital directors of nursing, and asking "If you are given a choice between hiring a new grad from ____ or ____ or ____ or ____, which would you choose?"
 
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