EcoLeftist Democrats Create Black Market in Dishwasher Detergent

Dungheap said:
Ugh. It's not even possible to make fun of you and your hackneyed bullshit. You have transcended satire. I'm beginning the think that you are really just a spoof.
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I respond to satire because I know there is a point masked in it that should not just be left unanswered. I realize it makes me look like jokes went over my head but that is your misconception.

Dungheap said:
I can see the rally signs now: IF DISHWATER DETERGENT CONTAINING PHOSPHATES ARE OUTLAWED ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE DISHWASHER DETERGENT CONTAINING PHOSPHATES.
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Well is this is not true? People ARE breaking the law as we speak to get around this regulation, many of them people who have probably never broken the law before.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt."


I find you an elitist little snot with an amazing understanding of law but an amazing lack of life experience. Do you know the hardship you cause, do you wash dishes, do you have a family with kids and more time to spend on redoing dishes, do you know how hard it is to keep up with housework? I'm guessing no.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Try backing up a few steps.
When a poor village in Africa or say a village in America a hundred or 2 hundred years ago, has access to water pump in their village, that means they don't have to walk as far to get it, which means they have more free time for farming and to improve their life and yes wealth further.
Eventually as life improves, more improvements are sought including using machines when the value given from them is deemed worthwhile and affordable and they can improve their life even further.

I think you're smart enough to know this, you are just stuck in that lefty cynical mode of defending any regulations as not a big deal because there are worse situations. I urge you not to do that because you could lose an awful lot of freedom if your benchmark is comparing life to the hardest lives in the world.
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I'm sorry but i just can't get upset about someone having to do a few dishes themselves. I appreciate how the couple of minutes spent moving about a bit and getting their hands wet, rather than opening a new factory or destroying a bank, may prove detrimental to the economy as a whole, but i think i can live with the guilt.

Then again maybe it's because i haven't got a dishwasher.
 
KingCondanomation said:
I respond to satire because I know there is a point masked in it that should not just be left unanswered. I realize it makes me look like jokes went over my head but that is your misconception.


Well is this is not true? People ARE breaking the law as we speak to get around this regulation, many of them people who have probably never broken the law before.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt."


I find you an elitist little snot with an amazing understanding of law but an amazing lack of life experience. Do you know the hardship you cause, do you wash dishes, do you have a family with kids and more time to spend on redoing dishes, do you know how hard it is to keep up with housework? I'm guessing no.
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Hilarious.

First, the law bans the sale not the use. So no one is going to knock down grandma's door and arrest her for doing the dishes. Your claim that people ARE (in all caps mind you) breaking the law is false, at least based on the article.

Second, the people of Washington state shouldn't have to deal with polluted waterways because you are too lazy to rise your fucking dishes. Given the harm to the environment and the cost of the ban, it's a no brainer I'm not surprised you don't get it.
 
charver said:
I'm sorry but i just can't get upset about someone having to do a few dishes themselves. I appreciate how the couple of minutes spent moving about a bit and getting their hands wet, rather than opening a new factory or destroying a bank, may prove detrimental to the economy as a whole, but i think i can live with the guilt.

Then again maybe it's because i haven't got a dishwasher.
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It doesn't even ban the use of dishwashers. It just bans certain types of detergent that contain chemicals the pollute waterways. I live in a state that has a similar ban. And I have a dishwasher. And my dishes get cleaned.

It's not that big a deal.
 
Dungheap said:
I guess what you fail to appreciate is the harm to the environment caused by phosphates in waste water. There is no such thing as the freedom to pollute waterways.
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Of course I do, they decrease oxygen in waterways and the harm is neglible given that fish populations in streams and rivers is fine. Just about all lakes and large bodies of water are not effected and phosphates could be removed from wastewater if really needed and converted to fertilizer.

In some cases the damage is non-existant. For example I live in a rural area on well water, water water goes to a septic tank where no life exists anyway. The effects of phosphates are irrelevant.

People buy many organic products on their own, many consumers are conscious of the products they buy, why not allow that for this too?
 
charver said:
I'm sorry but i just can't get upset about someone having to do a few dishes themselves. I appreciate how the couple of minutes spent moving about a bit and getting their hands wet, rather than opening a new factory or destroying a bank, may prove detrimental to the economy as a whole, but i think i can live with the guilt.

Then again maybe it's because i haven't got a dishwasher.
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Sometimes we don't care about the freedoms that don't effect us but we should otherwise that is quite a slippery slope for both sides of the political spectrum.
 
Dungheap said:
It doesn't even ban the use of dishwashers. It just bans certain types of detergent that contain chemicals the pollute waterways. I live in a state that has a similar ban. And I have a dishwasher. And my dishes get cleaned.

It's not that big a deal.
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Oh I see, so the people who said their dishes remain dirty with food and grease are what - lying? They're paying money for gas to drive out of state to buy the phosphate containing liquid for the hell of it?

It's obviously a big deal or they wouldn't go to those extremes.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Oh I see, so the people who said their dishes remain dirty with food and grease are what - lying? They're paying money for gas to drive out of state to buy the phosphate containing liquid for the hell of it?

It's obviously a big deal or they wouldn't go to those extremes.
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No. They're lazy. Rinse the fucking dishes. It takes a few seconds.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Sometimes we don't care about the freedoms that don't effect us but we should otherwise that is quite a slippery slope for both sides of the political spectrum.
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I can see how not being able to use a certain type of detergent would likely lead to a totalitarian state, even though there are, apparently, perfectly good alternatives.

I'm only glad you're still allowed to own weapons so like-minded souls can establish the detergent manufacturer's equivalent of The Alamo and defend your freedom to use polluting detergents in perpetuity.

Stamp on this sort of thing now or the next thing you know the government will be holding people without trial while torturing them in some secretive army base.
 
Dungheap said:
No. They're lazy. Rinse the fucking dishes. It takes a few seconds.
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You don't even know what you are talking about, phosphates primary use is to reduce mineral deposits on dishes like calcium. Yes they also make it easier for food to come off, but rinsing dishes only partially solves half the problem as the hardest stuck on food doesn't come off in a rinse anyway.
Also did you note in the article that people are just running their dishwasher longer, which is using more water and that rinsing uses more water?
Is that good for the environment?
I think most people are far more worried water waste than neglible phosphate damage.
 
KingCondanomation said:
You don't even know what you are talking about, phosphates primary use is to reduce mineral deposits on dishes like calcium. Yes they also make it easier for food to come off, but rinsing dishes only partially solves half the problem as the hardest stuck on food doesn't come off in a rinse anyway.
Also did you note in the article that people are just running their dishwasher longer, which is using more water and that rinsing uses more water?
Is that good for the environment?
I think most people are far more worried water waste than neglible phosphate damage.
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You can claim that phosphate damage is negligible but that doesn't make it so.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Making honest regular people into criminals. And WORSE there is a bill proposed that would do this nationwide. Fight back against the Liberal Democrats and email congress.

"SPOKANE, Wash. – The quest for squeaky-clean dishes has turned some law-abiding people in Spokane into dishwater-detergent smugglers. They are bringing Cascade or Electrasol in from out of state because the eco-friendly varieties required under Washington state law don't work as well. Spokane County became the launch pad last July for the nation's strictest ban on dishwasher detergent made with phosphates, a measure aimed at reducing water pollution. The ban will be expanded statewide in July 2010, the same time similar laws take effect in several other states.

But it's not easy to get sparkling dishes when you go green.

Many people were shocked to find that products like Seventh Generation, Ecover and Trader Joe's left their dishes encrusted with food, smeared with grease and too gross to use without rewashing them by hand. The culprit was hard water, which is mineral-rich and resistant to soap.

As a result, there has been a quiet rush of Spokane-area shoppers heading east on Interstate 90 into Idaho in search of old-school suds.

Real estate agent Patti Marcotte of Spokane stocks up on detergent at a Costco in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, and doesn't care who knows it.

"Yes, I am a smuggler," she said. "I'm taking my chances because dirty dishes I cannot live with."

...

Among other states that have banned or are banning phosphates in dishwasher detergent are Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Vermont, Minnesota, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York. A bill on Capitol Hill would impose a nationwide ban. "

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090328/ap_on_re_us/bootleg_detergent
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Dano, you idiot. The phosphate detergent ban applies only to it retail sale and not its use, ergo, their not smuggling and not breaking the law. This is just another one of your gross distortions cause you get information from some right wingnut source with out really even bothering to understand what the issue is about.
 
Dungheap said:
It doesn't even ban the use of dishwashers. It just bans certain types of detergent that contain chemicals the pollute waterways. I live in a state that has a similar ban. And I have a dishwasher. And my dishes get cleaned.

It's not that big a deal.
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Does it ban possession? Or just selling?
 
charver said:
I can see how not being able to use a certain type of detergent would likely lead to a totalitarian state, even though there are, apparently, perfectly good alternatives.

I'm only glad you're still allowed to own weapons so like-minded souls can establish the detergent manufacturer's equivalent of The Alamo and defend your freedom to use polluting detergents in perpetuity.

Stamp on this sort of thing now or the next thing you know the government will be holding people without trial while torturing them in some secretive army base.
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If it really is that unimportant why are people not upset over the waste of time and energy spent on making the silly law to begin with?
 
Mottleydude said:
Dano, you idiot. The phosphate detergent ban applies only to it retail sale and not its use, ergo, their not smuggling and not breaking the law. This is just another one of your gross distortions cause you get information from some right wingnut source with out really even bothering to understand what the issue is about.
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Right and of course none of those smugglers sell it to other people. Just like drugs, all people who want it drive all the way across a border to get some whenever they want it, they never buy it locally.
 
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