PGA has stripped trump Bedminster of 2022 PGA Championship

Althea said:
And I believe he automatically loses the laundry list of civil suits even if SC lets the self pardon stand.
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$100 says SCOTUS won't let any self-pardon stand. It's bullshit and goes directly against the intent of the Constitution.

The reason it's debatable is because it's never been tested in court. Why hasn't it been tested in court in over 230 years? Because it defies common sense.

SCOTUS will see it coming and give a quick decision overturning it, effectively saying "Are you fucking kidding me? No fucking way can a sworn public official pardon himself."

The second best thing will be seeing Trump spending his own money on these lawsuits. In the past, he's repeatedly relied upon fleecing his fans. His fans with money won't donate and the dumbasses who attack the Capitol don't have any money.
 
Althea said:
Correct. Once trump is no longer the useful idiot, Putin is free to expose everything. Which is why trump is frantic about his election day loss. He was railing against the election last July, ffs. He knew he was screwed.
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Agreed. Why else would Trump be talking about self-pardoning since before the election unless he knew he and his eldest idiots were guilty?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
$100 says SCOTUS won't let any self-pardon stand. It's bullshit and goes directly against the intent of the Constitution.

The reason it's debatable is because it's never been tested in court. Why hasn't it been tested in court in over 230 years? Because it defies common sense.

SCOTUS will see it coming and give a quick decision overturning it, effectively saying "Are you fucking kidding me? No fucking way can a sworn public official pardon himself."

The second best thing will be seeing Trump spending his own money on these lawsuits. In the past, he's repeatedly relied upon fleecing his fans. His fans with money won't donate and the dumbasses who attack the Capitol don't have any money.
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I hope you're right. What I've been reading is that it hinges on the term 'grant'. A POTUS may grant a pardon. Typically, something is 'granted' to someone else. We don't grant ourselves anything.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. Why else would Trump be talking about self-pardoning since before the election unless he knew he and his eldest idiots were guilty?
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I think he was talking about self pardons just after the inauguration. The poor moron is too proud to protect himself by stepping down and demanding a Pence pardon. He's his own worst enemy
 
Althea said:
I hope you're right. What I've been reading is that it hinges on the term 'grant'. A POTUS may grant a pardon. Typically, something is 'granted' to someone else. We don't grant ourselves anything.
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Not a lawyer, but courts look at precedence and intent of the law. There's a lot more than just the black letters. There's all the discussions and resolutions behind the words. This is what Conservatives look for when looking at the Constitution. Liberals want to update it to modern views. That's fine too but they need to go through the process, not just start reinterpreting the views.

In this case, IMO, Trump would most certainly go against all traditional views of intent and accountability since 1787.
 
Althea said:
I think he was talking about self pardons just after the inauguration. The poor moron is too proud to protect himself by stepping down and demanding a Pence pardon. He's his own worst enemy
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He'd be gambling Pence would give it to him. I think Pence made it clear he wouldn't. Could be another reason why Trump is giving Pence the cold shoulder.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
The trials of the Trumps, Trump officials and Trump fans over the next year will be the best soap opera evah!
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It'll blow OJ away.

It'll be like OJ + Zimmerman + Terri Shaivo won't = a tenth of Trump and family facing criminal charges. With a side of Rudy.

Smart move: Invest in popcorn.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Not a lawyer, but courts look at precedence and intent of the law. There's a lot more than just the black letters. There's all the discussions and resolutions behind the words. This is what Conservatives look for when looking at the Constitution. Liberals want to update it to modern views. That's fine too but they need to go through the process, not just start reinterpreting the views.

In this case, IMO, Trump would most certainly go against all traditional views of intent and accountability since 1787.
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The SC has already applied the 14th to corporations, when it was intended to give personhood to slaves.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
He'd be gambling Pence would give it to him. I think Pence made it clear he wouldn't. Could be another reason why Trump is giving Pence the cold shoulder.
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I haven't seen that? Pence made it clear that he wouldn't enact the 25th, though
 
Dutch Uncle said:
What are the odds that if Trump wanted to start launching nukes that one of the only people in the room or close by with guns will prevent that from happening? Secret Service personnel have families in or near Washington DC.
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Nuke codes is just a figure of speech. More than likely, he'll order a strike on an abandoned air strip in Iran, as he did in Syria. Just to hide his impotence
 
Althea said:
The SC has already applied the 14th to corporations, when it was intended to give personhood to slaves.
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They went by the law. It's up to Congress to rewrite it IAW with the Constitution. They haven't because they, all of them, benefit from the corporations.

I completely agree that it's insane to give the power of citizenship to a soulless entity which has the potential to live for a thousand years.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
They went by the law. It's up to Congress to rewrite it IAW with the Constitution. They haven't because they, all of them, benefit from the corporations.

I completely agree that it's insane to give the power of citizenship to a soulless entity which has the potential to live for a thousand years.
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When this was all current, it seems they relied on an errant reporting of a judge's comments from centuries earlier.

It was the work of a conservative SC that wanted to give even more power to corporations.
 
Althea said:
I haven't seen that? Pence made it clear that he wouldn't enact the 25th, though
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There's a difference. Although we won't know until after Biden is President, I think Pence doesn't want to be put into a position of being pressured to pardon Trump by the "Hang Pence" mob. Pence can't control what Trump does, but he can certainly control what he does.

There could be many reasons for this and I think most are factored in: On the low end, Pence probably wants to run for President himself in 2024. That is unlikely if he refused to pardon Trump. On the higher end, he probably despises Trump's lack of ethics, lack of Christian morality and wouldn't pardon Trump or any of his family because they are criminals who have harmed the United States.

My guess is that he goes to bed praying every night that Trump doesn't do anything stupid and just rides out the term. Think about the best case scenario, which is that, IMO, and the worst case where Trump decides to play "President Greg Stillson" anxious to launch nukes forcing Pence to exercise the 25th Amendment (probably previously discussed with top Republicans) and then refusing to pardon the Coward-in-Chief thereby incurring the wrath of Trump's nutjobs.
 
Althea said:
When this was all current, it seems they relied on an errant reporting of a judge's comments from centuries earlier.

It was the work of a conservative SC that wanted to give even more power to corporations.
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Not a lawyer, but all such rulings are extensively written. With all the lawyers on this forum, they would be better people to ask. Unfortunately, not a single one of them cares to cite case law or anything other their personal opinions as far as I've seen.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
There's a difference. Although we won't know until after Biden is President, I think Pence doesn't want to be put into a position of being pressured to pardon Trump by the "Hang Pence" mob. Pence can't control what Trump does, but he can certainly control what he does.

There could be many reasons for this and I think most are factored in: On the low end, Pence probably wants to run for President himself in 2024. That is unlikely if he refused to pardon Trump. On the higher end, he probably despises Trump's lack of ethics, lack of Christian morality and wouldn't pardon Trump or any of his family because they are criminals who have harmed the United States.

My guess is that he goes to bed praying every night that Trump doesn't do anything stupid and just rides out the term. Think about the best case scenario, which is that, IMO, and the worst case where Trump decides to play "President Greg Stillson" anxious to launch nukes forcing Pence to exercise the 25th Amendment (probably previously discussed with top Republicans) and then refusing to pardon the Coward-in-Chief thereby incurring the wrath of Trump's nutjobs.
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Pence would only have to pardon trump. Nothing stops him from pardoning his own family before he steps down.

Moot point. trump could NEVER step down.
 
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