Confederate flag banned from being sold or displayed on state property in New York

RB 60 said:
Think as you wish.

Ask those who actually fought, you may be surprised. None at my gun club thinks it's right.

Only a very few. Again, I wouldn't recommend trying to deface Gettysburg (which is taxpayer funded on public land). It won't end well.
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Gettusburg is different.

It is a historical park, whose primary goal is education.

I conclude it is appropriate for a historical park or museum to have visual representations of Confederate paraphernalia, if there is a historical context.

I am pretty sure the U.S. National Holocaust Museum has Nazi paraphernalia in it - it does not mean they are condoning the Nazi cause, everyone understands the context is educational.

It is a different matter to place a memorial to a Confederate general on the grounds of a state capitol, or to fly the Confederate battle standard over a state capitol building. Those are public places which represent what the community values. Enemy combatants and enemy battle flags are not appropriate for those kind of community properties.
 
Cypress said:
Kneeling in protest does not bother me.

There is no comparison between football players kneeling during an anthem to call attention to police abuse,
to the armed forces of an enemy combatant trying to kill American soldiers serving under the stars and stripes.

No comparison, none, nada, zilch.

The enemy armed forces of the Confederate States of America are still being deified and mythologized to this day, because a certain segment of rednecks want to display the Confederate Army's battle standard, and monuments to their generals in our public parks and public commons.
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When police deal with thugs the way thugs need to be dealt with, that's not abuse.
 
Cypress said:
Gettusburg is different.

It is a historical park, whose primary goal is education.

I conclude it is appropriate for a historical park or museum to have visual representations of Confederate paraphernalia, if there is a historical context.

I am pretty sure the U.S. National Holocaust Museum has Nazi paraphernalia in it - it does not mean they are condoning the Nazi cause, everyone understands the context is educational.

It is a different matter to place a memorial to a Confederate general on the grounds of a state capitol, or to fly the Confederate battle standard over a state capitol building. Those are public places which represent what the community values. Enemy combatants and enemy battle flags are not appropriate for those kind of community properties.
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Oh, so there's a double standard. Only some public places are affected. Got it.

Difference is, you cry about it and I don't. The war is over and I'm not "offended." Why must you be?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Me neither.

True. OTOH, do you agree employers have a right to prevent employees from politicizing their businesses? Especially if it was written into their contracts upon acceptance of employment? Do you agree that people who pay money to see a game, show, whatever, have a right to see what they came for and not political demonstrations?

Sorry, but I disagree with your characterization of the positions of Americans during the Civil War. Yes, some people do put too much on the CSA, you included, sir. The fact we're still discussing it 155 years later is proof some of the issues are still relevant and not easily canceled. I'm referencing State's Rights, not slavery. Too many people obsess that the Civil War was only about slavery. It wasn't and the issues in contention today are not about slavery. At least among sane, pro-American people.

BTW, "rednecks" is a racial slur. An epithet.
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Yes, an employer has the right to control political activities on their property. However, NFL players are not as replaceable as McDonald's employees, and I imagine they realize they have that leverage and are willing to risk their employment for a greater cause.

The causes of the civil war were myriad, but the question about expanding slavery to new states, as well as the morality of slavery was the keystone issue.

99.99999999999999 % of people who are counter-protesting in favor of keeping Confederate monuments in city parks are white people, which makes my use of redneck accurate, if admittedly off-color.
 
CFM said:
When police deal with thugs the way thugs need to be dealt with, that's not abuse.
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Agreed. I know you can't be a vet, but SYT certainly is:

https://www.military.com/daily-news...rested-michigan-governor-kidnapping-plot.html
2 Marine Corps Vets Among Those Arrested in Michigan Governor Kidnapping Plot
Two of the 13 men arrested in an alleged militia plot to kidnap Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer served in the Marine Corps, and one was discharged from the military on the same day he was arraigned on felony charges, officials confirmed Saturday.

Joseph M. Morrison, 26, of Munith, Mich., was a lance corporal in the Marine Corps Reserve who was discharged Thursday for reasons unconnected to the allegations, Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Joe Butterfield said in a statement.

Daniel Harris, 23, of Lake Orion, Mich. is a former corporal, who was discharged June 1, 2019, according to information provided.
Marines%20Arrested%20Whitmer%201800.jpg
 
Cypress said:
Yes, an employer has the right to control political activities on their property. However, NFL players are not as replaceable as McDonald's employees, and I imagine they realize they have that leverage and are willing to risk their employment for a greater cause.

The causes of the civil war were myriad, but the question about expanding slavery to new states, as well as the morality of slavery was the keystone issue.

99.99999999999999 % of people who are counter-protesting in favor of keeping Confederate monuments in city parks are white people, which makes my use of redneck accurate, if admittedly off-color.
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Kap was easily replaced. Jus' sayin'. ;) Like Chik-Fil-A, all businesses know that politicizing their business is bad for business. Kap was bad for business and deserved to be let go.

Slavery was certainly an issue, but it's a lie to claim the Civil War was about slavery as many on this and other forums claim.

Disagreed on your redneck assertions. It's racist. Yes, there are racist dipshits who are protesting the removal of monuments just like there are racist dipshits seeking to destroy all monuments including Thomas Jefferson's.

The link below shows a slim majority supporting the removal from public places of Confederate monuments, but I think that is more about keeping the peace and not giving a shit about history rather than proof 52% of Americans hate Southerners or, as you claim, "rednecks".

Note that, among Independents, the split is 50-46.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/5...moving-confederate-statues-from-public-places
The majority of voters now say they support removing Confederate statues from public spaces around the country, according to a new survey.

Fifty-two percent of voters said they support removing such statutes, while just 44 percent oppose removing them, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll survey released Wednesday.

A similar poll from 2017 found just 39 percent supported removing Confederate statues from public spaces, while 50 percent were opposed.

Support for removing Confederate statues is heavily split by party, based on the poll. An overwhelming 85 percent of Democrats back the move, and just 11 percent are against it.

Among Republicans, however, 80 percent said they oppose removing Confederate statues from public spaces and just 14 percent support it, the survey said.

Independents are more split, with 50 percent saying they support removing Confederate statues and 46 percent saying they oppose doing so.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. I know you can't be a vet, but SYT certainly is:

https://www.military.com/daily-news...rested-michigan-governor-kidnapping-plot.html
2 Marine Corps Vets Among Those Arrested in Michigan Governor Kidnapping Plot
Two of the 13 men arrested in an alleged militia plot to kidnap Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer served in the Marine Corps, and one was discharged from the military on the same day he was arraigned on felony charges, officials confirmed Saturday.

Joseph M. Morrison, 26, of Munith, Mich., was a lance corporal in the Marine Corps Reserve who was discharged Thursday for reasons unconnected to the allegations, Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Joe Butterfield said in a statement.

Daniel Harris, 23, of Lake Orion, Mich. is a former corporal, who was discharged June 1, 2019, according to information provided.
Marines%20Arrested%20Whitmer%201800.jpg
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You claim to be a vet yet have never provided any proof of that claim.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Kap was easily replaced. Jus' sayin'. ;) Like Chik-Fil-A, all businesses know that politicizing their business is bad for business. Kap was bad for business and deserved to be let go.

Slavery was certainly an issue, but it's a lie to claim the Civil War was about slavery as many on this and other forums claim.

Disagreed on your redneck assertions. It's racist. Yes, there are racist dipshits who are protesting the removal of monuments just like there are racist dipshits seeking to destroy all monuments including Thomas Jefferson's.

The link below shows a slim majority supporting the removal from public places of Confederate monuments, but I think that is more about keeping the peace and not giving a shit about history rather than proof 52% of Americans hate Southerners or, as you claim, "rednecks".

Note that, among Independents, the split is 50-46.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/5...moving-confederate-statues-from-public-places
The majority of voters now say they support removing Confederate statues from public spaces around the country, according to a new survey.

Fifty-two percent of voters said they support removing such statutes, while just 44 percent oppose removing them, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll survey released Wednesday.

A similar poll from 2017 found just 39 percent supported removing Confederate statues from public spaces, while 50 percent were opposed.

Support for removing Confederate statues is heavily split by party, based on the poll. An overwhelming 85 percent of Democrats back the move, and just 11 percent are against it.

Among Republicans, however, 80 percent said they oppose removing Confederate statues from public spaces and just 14 percent support it, the survey said.

Independents are more split, with 50 percent saying they support removing Confederate statues and 46 percent saying they oppose doing so.
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Southerners went on public record stating that slavery was the main reason for their secession.

State of Mississippi - 1861 Declaration of Secession

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
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Cypress said:
Southerners went on public record stating that slavery was the main reason for their secession.
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So? You are certainly smart enough to know there's a difference between why Southern states seceded and why Lincoln invaded the South. You and I were talking about the cause of the Civil War, not why the South seceded.
 
Chaz said:
You seem to think the CSA was a worthwhile cause.
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Since I've never posted that belief, I'm curious why you keep leaping to it. Did I piss in your Wheaties on another forum? Did I fuck your girlfriend over 10 years ago? Did I make you look stupid in front of the class? What's the big secret here?
 
gemini104104 said:
Sure these un American creatures are free to wipe their ass with the confederate rag, flaunt it around and do whatever the hell they want to do with it but it should be outside of U.S. territory as a despicable representation at glorifying and giving homage to a dead, defunct and barbaric confederate un American atrocity on humanity. Additionally the image of sub human and deplorable confederate legacy is poison on the social conscious that has turned many weak minded tRumptards treasonous and a complete failure as so-called human beings. Promoting and flaunting the confederate rag in America should also be considered a national security issue.
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It is a first amendment issue. You cannot prohibit content.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Since I've never posted that belief, I'm curious why you keep leaping to it. Did I piss in your Wheaties on another forum? Did I fuck your girlfriend over 10 years ago? Did I make you look stupid in front of the class? What's the big secret here?
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You have always been consistently pro-CSA.
 
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