Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Using slave labor in china has nothing to do with freedom. It's atrocity and it's disgusting.
The Loss Generation
- Thread starter Chapdog
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Using slave labor in china has nothing to do with freedom. It's atrocity and it's disgusting.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Take it up with the Chinese govt. Keeping the government out of your property and capital is to err on the side of freedom. Americans tend to value perceived security over freedom, but the principle still stands nonetheless.
evince
Truthmatters
Whos economic freedom am I attacking?
You do understand that we were fucking taken by the uber wealthy who run the corps right?
They do not need the freedom to fuck us every ten years.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
I take it up with the american fascists who use slavery to put americans out of work.
Government is implicity tied into our markets when we rely on other governments to create slave labor force with which to displace americans.
Your fascism is showing.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
The Rs are the party who got us here and who preach greed and fend for yourself idiologies.
You continually throw out anti-capitalist lines like this. I find comments that attack free markets and promote an individual's responsibility to the collective, rather than individualism itself to be anti-freedom statements...
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Individual liberties need to be protected by government. The fascists you are deluded into worshipping seek to erode whatever rights need to be eroded to reduce people to slaves.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Idiot. The attacking of free markets is the erosion of rights!
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
They are not free markets when some parties are slaves. Free market ideology is meant for execution inside an environment which respects individual rights, when you allow in slave labor, and use it to destroy the production capacity of free nations, the only outcome is the strengthening of the totalitarian civil rights denying regime, and the shortisighted western leaders who use the slaves to decimate their own population economically. you wouldn't know individual rights if they jumped up and gave you oral.
evince
Truthmatters
Its only anti capitalist to nut bags.
When capitalism is let unfettered it turns into something else. I like my capitalism to stay capitalism.
Its the people who think that CEOs dont need laws to follow who are the ones who are anti capitalist.
It kills caplitalism dead.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
That would be all well and good, but you continually attack it for being about "greed" and "selfishness," and other meaningless platitudes.
evince
Truthmatters
It is greed and selfishness to constantly say about anyone who is economically disadvantaged that its all their fault and they need to suffer for their economic sins.
It is greed and selfishness to take biilions of dollars in bonuses when your corp is about to lay off masses amounts of people and in so screwing the economy long term because you fucked up in your job.
It is greed and selfishness to take biilions of dollars in bonuses when your corp is about to lay off masses amounts of people and in so screwing the economy long term because you fucked up in your job.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Which, most people don't generally say. And people who try to pull that kind of crap are usually guilty of breaking the law and so forth (Enron comes to mind)...
evince
Truthmatters
and you are completely confused.
cawacko
Well-known member
Unfortunately Desh he's not. Having a rational debate includes more than just saying Republicans are evil and it is their fault for everything bad that has happened in this country and the Democrats are good and have only contributed good and done nothing bad for the country ever. It's just not that black and white but that is how you argue it thus any real attempt at a discussion ends up pointless.
Epicurus
Reasonable
This.
C
Cancel5
Guest
Good Luck
New member
If what people gain out of this situation - as is hinted at by the article - is to save carefully, delay optional purchases, moderate necessary purchases, and live within the means they have at the time instead of projected means in some undefined future, then we will have a chance to truly recover. But it will take a lot longer than 5 years for our economy to adjust from deficit spending to a real economy. Today is the result of 80 years of house-of-cards credit economy, so there are not going to be any single-term answers.
As far as blaming the situation on any single generation, it is ridiculous. The boomers were not the only ones who bought on credit. Boomers were not, in general, the ones who bought 6 bedroom houses for a family of three because of its resale value, and are now defaulting on them. In fact of the generations so far discussed, only the parents of the boomers carry a lower average personal debt to asset ratio.
The fact is we have been dependent on a credit economy since the Great Depression. We started shifting to a credit economy as part of a government/corporate sponsored method to grow the economy more quickly than natural recovery would have allowed. WWII came along and put us on a war economy (which is essentially a credit economy) and we continued with credit as a means to drive the economy after WWII to avoid the usual post war depression. We moved from an economy that expected people to save enough to pay at least 50% for their house to an economy that did not expect cash payment for a friggin TV. For several generations we have been clinging tightly to the concept of entitlement, like we deserve whatever society has to offer regardless of our economic situation, without waiting and without any type of sacrifice.
The average household carries something like $12,000 revolving credit debt (credit cards) at an average interest rate of 16%. That is $1920 per year the average household is spending for the privilege of buying a new TV (etc.) last year instead of saving and buying it for cash this year. $1920 isn't exactly chump change in the average household budget. $1920 times 80 million households is over $150 billion dollars. This is ONLY credit card debt. It does not include personal bank loans, car loans, home equity loans, etc. If we were to simply get rid of credit card spending for casual purchases, we could pump that 150 billion into additional spending instead of supporting overspending.
The housing crisis was simply the back-breaking straw in a much larger picture. A credit economy is a house of cards. Government policies have been focussed for 80 years on maintaining our credit economy. Which ever party gets that big screen TV in the most over sized living rooms and multiple bedrooms receives more votes the next election. And each time credit limits are reached, the answer of the government is to write legislation to extend credit spending into larger portions of the populace. (the democrats passing laws requiring lending in lower economic strata, the republicans writing laws making such lending profitable).
IF we learn from the current crisis what we SHOULD learn, it is that credit economies are not limitless. They are, in fact, inherently unstable. IF we learn what we SHOULD learn, we will spend the next decade in a concentrated effort, as individuals and as a society, to pay down the levels of individual debt that have accumulated. IF we learn what we SHOULD learn, we will spend our national recovery efforts assisting those who will be affected by the severe economic slowdown that will result from the transition to a PayGo economy.
IF we are WISE, this will be the last crisis, and we'll learn we are NOT entitled to having it all right out of college as seems to be the current common expectation. But sadly, given the way the government (under the cry of "CHANGE!") is continuing to promote deficit spending, increase governmental spending which has no hope of being offset by any proposed tax increases, we are going to attempt yet again to shore up our house-of-cards economy in the hopes of putting it all on the shoulders of generations yet to come. Given the way the braindead continue to whine out their call of entitlement, we will simply do it again until REAL collapse comes. And come it will - likely within 20 years of shoring up this latest crisis with more credit spending.
As far as blaming the situation on any single generation, it is ridiculous. The boomers were not the only ones who bought on credit. Boomers were not, in general, the ones who bought 6 bedroom houses for a family of three because of its resale value, and are now defaulting on them. In fact of the generations so far discussed, only the parents of the boomers carry a lower average personal debt to asset ratio.
The fact is we have been dependent on a credit economy since the Great Depression. We started shifting to a credit economy as part of a government/corporate sponsored method to grow the economy more quickly than natural recovery would have allowed. WWII came along and put us on a war economy (which is essentially a credit economy) and we continued with credit as a means to drive the economy after WWII to avoid the usual post war depression. We moved from an economy that expected people to save enough to pay at least 50% for their house to an economy that did not expect cash payment for a friggin TV. For several generations we have been clinging tightly to the concept of entitlement, like we deserve whatever society has to offer regardless of our economic situation, without waiting and without any type of sacrifice.
The average household carries something like $12,000 revolving credit debt (credit cards) at an average interest rate of 16%. That is $1920 per year the average household is spending for the privilege of buying a new TV (etc.) last year instead of saving and buying it for cash this year. $1920 isn't exactly chump change in the average household budget. $1920 times 80 million households is over $150 billion dollars. This is ONLY credit card debt. It does not include personal bank loans, car loans, home equity loans, etc. If we were to simply get rid of credit card spending for casual purchases, we could pump that 150 billion into additional spending instead of supporting overspending.
The housing crisis was simply the back-breaking straw in a much larger picture. A credit economy is a house of cards. Government policies have been focussed for 80 years on maintaining our credit economy. Which ever party gets that big screen TV in the most over sized living rooms and multiple bedrooms receives more votes the next election. And each time credit limits are reached, the answer of the government is to write legislation to extend credit spending into larger portions of the populace. (the democrats passing laws requiring lending in lower economic strata, the republicans writing laws making such lending profitable).
IF we learn from the current crisis what we SHOULD learn, it is that credit economies are not limitless. They are, in fact, inherently unstable. IF we learn what we SHOULD learn, we will spend the next decade in a concentrated effort, as individuals and as a society, to pay down the levels of individual debt that have accumulated. IF we learn what we SHOULD learn, we will spend our national recovery efforts assisting those who will be affected by the severe economic slowdown that will result from the transition to a PayGo economy.
IF we are WISE, this will be the last crisis, and we'll learn we are NOT entitled to having it all right out of college as seems to be the current common expectation. But sadly, given the way the government (under the cry of "CHANGE!") is continuing to promote deficit spending, increase governmental spending which has no hope of being offset by any proposed tax increases, we are going to attempt yet again to shore up our house-of-cards economy in the hopes of putting it all on the shoulders of generations yet to come. Given the way the braindead continue to whine out their call of entitlement, we will simply do it again until REAL collapse comes. And come it will - likely within 20 years of shoring up this latest crisis with more credit spending.
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Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
but old people are especially spazzy about convincing people to go all in now, because they need things to pop on paper right now, because they have no working years, or fewer.
The desperation to sucker others into the ponzi scheme is inversely proportional to the working years left. Sorry. It;s true. Im not sure I'm blame them, but we younger people need to consider our own needs, and you can't blame us either.
The desperation to sucker others into the ponzi scheme is inversely proportional to the working years left. Sorry. It;s true. Im not sure I'm blame them, but we younger people need to consider our own needs, and you can't blame us either.
But look at the entertainment she provides....
desh said:
"it seems people always want to find a boogey man that is easy to define and blame it for all their ills."
Now wasn't that alone worth it....this is the broad that blames Republicans for every imaginable bad thing thats ever happened in the world....Republicans, Bush, and Conservatives...over and over like a broken record....
and then has the audacity to make that statement like others look for an easy 'boogie man', but not her....its freekin hilarious...