Vaccines and autism

Damocles said:
Out of over 6 billion? Yeah, it's a rare occurrence. What were the numbers like before the vaccinations?
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The 200k is down from 750k in 2000. Would be much higher without vaccinations.

So what you are saying is, we should let easily over a million plus die based on the false fears of some dumbasses.

I don't advocate forcing anyone to take the vaccine but they are stupid to avoid it.
 
Chapdog said:
you cant include counties outside of the us in this study

Most Americans who have concerns about giving there kids 30+vaccines for stupid shit there kid isnt exposed to because they live in small towns. inner city slums.. by all means get them.
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It's useful to include countries outside of the US to give you an example of how many people would be dying if we didn't vaccinate. That's 200k death a year from the measles alone, even with vaccination programs in all the worlds developed countries and attempts at them in developing countries. If small towns refused vaccinations, I assure you, there would be multiple endemic outbreaks and many thousands of deaths from something that is completely and totally preventable. We live in a global community, it's not enough to say that since you live in a small place no epidemic can happen.
 
Damocles said:
You are talking out your behind again.

A more significant number would be the death rate of those who caught Measles.

Anyway the question was one of curiosity, I'm not trying to make a fricking point with it.

Does anybody know somebody who died from this?

And I'd be asking people older than you. People in your generation got vaccinated, people in mine got measles and were immune afterward. We didn't die. Everybody that I know from childhood had the measles once, zero of them died from it.
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Prior to 1963 there was an average of 4 million cases with 450 deaths. That's over 1 death in every 10000 cases. That's not an insignificant number at all.
 
Watermark said:
It's useful to include countries outside of the US to give you an example of how many people would be dying if we didn't vaccinate. That's 200k death a year from the measles alone, even with vaccination programs in all the worlds developed countries and attempts at them in developing countries. If small towns refused vaccinations, I assure you, there would be multiple endemic outbreaks and many thousands of deaths from something that is completely and totally preventable. We live in a global community, it's not enough to say that since you live in a small place no epidemic can happen.
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oh know.. an epidemic of the flu, or chickenpox, or infantile hepatitis. I didnt say dont give the the Measles, mumps, and rubella vaccinations.. IM just saying separate them.

How about we add the flu, chickenpox, hepatitis, cervical cancer, MMR.. put them all together in one shot.. No risk there to a 2yearold right ?
 
Chapdog said:
oh know.. an epidemic of the flu, or chickenpox, or infantile hepatitis. I didnt say dont give the the Measles, mumps, and rubella vaccinations.. IM just saying separate them.

How about we add the flu, chickenpox, hepatitis, cervical cancer, MMR.. put them all together in one shot.. No risk there to a 2yearold right ?
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Don't know. We do know that the shots as currently given do not pose a risk of causing autism.
 
Chapdog said:
oh know.. an epidemic of the flu, or chickenpox, or infantile hepatitis. I didnt say dont give the the Measles, mumps, and rubella vaccinations.. IM just saying separate them.

How about we add the flu, chickenpox, hepatitis, cervical cancer, MMR.. put them all together in one shot.. No risk there to a 2yearold right ?
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I don't know about those specific shots. They weren't designed for infants so I can't say with perfect certainty one way or the other.
 
Dungheap said:
Don't know. We do know that the shots as currently given do not pose a risk of causing autism.
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tell that to some of the convinced public with autistic kids out there. this is so reminiscent of the no evidence smoking causes cancer cover up.
 
Watermark said:
Well clearly, if we can't produce any anecdotal evidence from the thirty people on this board about people dying from one specific disease that vaccines prevent then that's valid evidence. Anecdotal evidence is so useful.

I personally don't know anyone who refuses to give their children vaccinations. Parent refusing their children vaccines is not a very common thing, but the total statistical disease rate amongst such children is undoubtedly much higher, and the potential for catastrophe amongst such populations is almost certain the bigger the anti-vaccination movement gets (once it gets big enough to eliminate the herd immunity that now acts as a partial safeguard).
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I know three people who died from the measles. It was a horrible measles epidemic.
 
Chapdog said:
tell that to some of the convinced public with autistic kids out there. this is so reminiscent of the no evidence smoking causes cancer cover up.
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I will. People have. It does nothing to change their mind. People believe all sorts of shit that just isn't true.

There is no evidence to substantiate the claimed link. The guy that started all of this faked his research.
 
Chapdog said:
tell that to some of the convinced public with autistic kids out there. this is so reminiscent of the no evidence smoking causes cancer cover up.
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I guess I'm swallowing the blue pill huh?

Being paid off by the big vaccine companies?

Not open-minded enough?

Skeptoid also has a really good response to those types of arguments:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4134
The tagline for this podcast, buried somewhere in the RSS feed that nobody ever sees, is "The truth always hurts someone." This axiom is reproven every week when my Google Alerts show me new references on the web to Skeptoid, usually in somebody's blog, usually lambasting me as a paid stooge for the government or at best, "just another closed-minded debunker". If I don't accept every shred of anecdotal whimsey as absolute proof of the supernatural, I'm "closed minded". If I have not been sufficiently impressed by evidence to move from the null hypothesis, I'm "trying to justify my preconceived notions". If I am moved by the results of well-performed studies that have passed peer review and contribute to a scientific consensus, I've "taken the red pill and gone down the rabbit hole to become a true believer in the lies of Big Science".
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More at link...
 
Darla said:
No
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I knew it wasn't serious, but you had me trapped, because if I would've attacked you for being an insensitive pseudoscientific prick like you deserved and it had actually happened it would've been much worse for me.

So I'll just leave it at fuck you.

measleskid.jpg
 
Watermark said:
I knew it wasn't serious, but you had me trapped, because if I would've attacked you for being an insensitive pseudoscientific prick like you deserved and it had actually happened it would've been much worse for me.

So I'll just leave it at fuck you.
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LOL
 
Chapdog said:
tell that to some of the convinced public with autistic kids out there.
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Emotional appeal.

Chapdog said:
this is so reminiscent of the no evidence smoking causes cancer cover up.
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BULLSHIT! The scientific consensus on smoking was in in the 50s. There are only some crackpots who have been exposed as frauds backing this nonsense. The scientific consensus is that autism is hereditary and not caused by any environmental factors.
 
RStringfield said:
Prior to 1963 there was an average of 4 million cases with 450 deaths. That's over 1 death in every 10000 cases. That's not an insignificant number at all.
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http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_whatis_factsstats

# 1 in 150 births1
# 1 to 1.5 million Americans2
# Fastest-growing developmental disability

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Yeah, you go right ahead and give you're kid 50 vaccinations b/f they are 3 if you want to. Personally, I'm going to limit it to the ones that I had as a child.
 
Well, I guess I have to retract that this is an example of anti-science on the left. Maybe this one crosses lines. I have usually heard it accompanied with some crap about how the pharma's are behind it. Like they are going to go broke without vaccines.
 
LadyT said:
http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_whatis_factsstats

# 1 in 150 births1
# 1 to 1.5 million Americans2
# Fastest-growing developmental disability

_________________________________________

Yeah, you go right ahead and give you're kid 50 vaccinations b/f they are 3 if you want to. Personally, I'm going to limit it to the ones that I had as a child.
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Fastest growing diagnosed. Growth in diagnosis does not mean there are actually more people suffering from the ailment.
 
RStringfield said:
Well, I guess I have to retract that this is an example of anti-science on the left. Maybe this one crosses lines. I have usually heard it accompanied with some crap about how the pharma's are behind it. Like they are going to go broke without vaccines.
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http://library.corporate-ir.net/lib...A8779A_4Q08 - Other Financial Disclosures.pdf

Actually smart ass nearly 30% of Mercks's sales are vaccines. Implying that there's no financial incentive for pushing vaccines is obtuse.
 
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