Tax by the mile and not by the gallon?

uscitizen said:
Umm What gas guzzlers weigh the same as fuel efficient hybrids?

Maybe an astin martin or some exotic sports car?

Hybrids are pretty light.
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Don't be a dumbass. The point is clear. How many miles you drive and the weight of your vehicle are more directly related to your use of public roads than your gas consumption.
 
A private toll system would be as unruly, unresponsive, and complicated as anything could be. And it would only even exist in the first place because the government built it first.
 
uscitizen said:
We have? What is that value?

Getting off the middle eastern oily teat is not going to be painless at all.
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This summer we seemed to reach the point where the price of gasoline was actually having an impact on behavior. My point was that if your goal is to change behavior you can do it without being punitive.
 
Superfreak said:
No it is not an exact science... but it penalizes people for driving more and for using less efficient vehichles.

Yes, the Hybrid SUV may drive the same mileage and be of similar weight to a regular SUV and the regular would end up paying more for the road. But the Hybrid SUV will pay more typically than the non-hybrid compacts assuming the same mileage.

So when looking at JUST wear and tear on the road, you are right... the hybrid SUV essentially has the same wear and tear on the road as the regular SUV.

Like I said, it is not a perfect system, but it is one that does penalize those who drive more or use less efficient vehicles.
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Further, if you look at the tax as not just a fee to use the road but also an attempt to price in the negative externalities associated with the burning of fossil fuels a VMT tax does nothing for you on this front. The wear on the road may be the same, but the impact on the environment is drastically different.
 
uscitizen said:
a gps orientied tax would not work for some time as few vehicles have the devices in them.
It would have to be a odometer oriented. tax.

Say you enter your odometer reading and liscence plate number on the gas pump and it figures your tax from the last time it was posted and you pay it. Your odometer will need to be verified at each liscencing to prevent fraud.
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So you're not for a gas tax. You're for a distance tax. But BEFORE you wanted the gas tax, so you could save money with a hybrid, or electric car, or whatever. You changed.
 
RStringfield said:
Don't be a dumbass. The point is clear. How many miles you drive and the weight of your vehicle are more directly related to your use of public roads than your gas consumption.
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And heavier vehicles consume more gas/fuel. So your point is?


yes mileage and weight combos are the fairest way to tax vehicles for wear and tear on roads.

However the miplementation is a problem.

And could we afford trucked goods if the transport trucks were taxed according to weight/miles driven?

I think an 18 wheeler would put well over 100X the wear on the road as a small car.
 
Dungheap said:
This summer we seemed to reach the point where the price of gasoline was actually having an impact on behavior. My point was that if your goal is to change behavior you can do it without being punitive.
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$3/gal gas is punitive to some where it takes $4/gal gas to be punitive to others.
and $10/gal would not be punitive to some.
 
uscitizen said:
$3/gal gas is punitive to some where it takes $4/gal gas to be punitive to others.
and $10/gal would not be punitive to some.
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But a flat rate tax as opposed to a percentage tax prevents wildly escalating prices. That's all I'm saying. If the feds tax by a percentage and some states tax by a percentage, as the price of oil increases, the prices of gas would increase at an ever increasing rate. With a flat fee you avoid that.
 
Dungheap said:
But a flat rate tax as opposed to a percentage tax prevents wildly escalating prices. That's all I'm saying. If the feds tax by a percentage and some states tax by a percentage, as the price of oil increases, the prices of gas would increase at an ever increasing rate. With a flat fee you avoid that.
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Yes but as I said with higher oil prices consumption goes down so does per gallon taxes while materials and fuel for road maintenance goes up.
 
uscitizen said:
And heavier vehicles consume more gas/fuel. So your point is?
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That's not nearly always true. Especially with newer technologies.

yes mileage and weight combos are the fairest way to tax vehicles for wear and tear on roads.

However the miplementation is a problem.

And could we afford trucked goods if the transport trucks were taxed according to weight/miles driven?

I think an 18 wheeler would put well over 100X the wear on the road as a small car.
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So the end consumer would pay directly for the actual costs of his/her consumption. What a shame that would be. No more wasting resources by hiding costs through subsidizing inefficient transportation.

I agree implementation is a problem. That's why I am not necessarily advocating it.
 
Watermark said:
I know you believe global warming is a noahide hoax, but it's worth the "unfairness" to encourage energy-efficient vehicles.
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fuck you, fuck that, and fuck any government agency that dares to try and put a gps in or on my vehicle. The ONLY thing that should be encouraging energy efficient vehicles is the price of gas. That's why I own a motorcycle.
 
Dungheap said:
And f' this:
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The system would require all cars and trucks be equipped with global satellite positioning technology, a transponder, a clock and other equipment to record how many miles a vehicle was driven, whether it was driven on highways or secondary roads, and even whether it was driven during peak traffic periods or off-peak hours.

The device would tally how much tax motorists owed depending upon their road use. Motorists would pay the amount owed when it was downloaded, probably at gas stations at first, but an alternative eventually would be needed.
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I completely agree with Dungheap on this one.

First, the last thing in the world I want is the government tracking my every move. I don't care whether it is Republican or Democrat. I don't trust them to a) not share that information and b) not use it against me for any reason that they seem fit. Can you just imagine what they could do to your life with this kind of tracking system?

Second, I can just see it now. How many of you remember the mid 70's when we waited in gasoline lines for hours to get gas? Sure, at first it will be the gas stations, but then you will have to go to the "collection station" where they will review your driving record and then cite you for going over the speed limit, not coming to a full stop at the stop sign etc. And if you just happen to be so unlucky as to have been in the area where a crime was committed they will have President Obama's Citizens Security Force waiting at each "Collection Station" to haul your ass to prison, no questions asked. The lines of people waiting to be arrested for every infraction will be horrendous.

And Third, I would not be surprised if they didn't attempt to add this "Road Use Tax" AND keep the Gas Tax.

As Dungheap says, F' this!!!!

Immie
 
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Dungheap said:
Seems pretty stupid to me. Just raise the gas tax.
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seems pretty liberal to me, as has been documented in this very forum by yours truly.

Oregon pioneered this shit. it's a slap in the face to you prius owners.
And you warmer morons buy the reasoning for this obvious money grab.
think of the children..well the childrens' childrens' children! The climate be back up to it's dangerous path to warming by that time.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Why is watermark a totalitarian?
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Because his life has been filled with such powerlessness, he uses his vote and feels he uses his ideology to assert some power. If he believes he derives power from this behavior, he probably does, in some small way. Good on him. We all need to feel like we have some control or some power.
 
Plus totalitarianism and elitism are presented as positives in our warped educational system. I guess it's not really his fault. Some people don't have the intellect to detect these vile and pernicious insidiousnesses.
 
Immanuel said:
I completely agree with Dungheap on this one.

First, the last thing in the world I want is the government tracking my every move. I don't care whether it is Republican or Democrat. I don't trust them to a) not share that information and b) not use it against me for any reason that they seem fit. Can you just imagine what they could do to your life with this kind of tracking system?

Second, I can just see it now. How many of you remember the mid 70's when we waited in gasoline lines for hours to get gas? Sure, at first it will be the gas stations, but then you will have to go to the "collection station" where they will review your driving record and then cite you for going over the speed limit, not coming to a full stop at the stop sign etc. And if you just happen to be so unlucky as to have been in the area where a crime was committed they will have President Obama's Citizens Security Force waiting at each "Collection Station" to haul your ass to prison, no questions asked. The lines of people waiting to be arrested for every infraction will be horrendous.

And Third, I would not be surprised if they didn't attempt to add this "Road Use Tax" AND keep the Gas Tax.

As Dungheap says, F' this!!!!

Immie
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of course they will keep both

also, i do not want the government having that much info on me either :clink:
 
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