De-evolution

I am not so sure the notion that education leads to success, health, wealth, etc., is not just a joint cause fallacy. That is, a person who is determined to achieve will pursue an education, health, etc. Those that are not driven won't pursue any of those things. The lazy guy is not going to get an education and is not going to put in the effort for good health. The true cause of the educational and other achievements may well be within the individual themselves.
 
RStringfield said:
I am not so sure the notion that education leads to success, health, wealth, etc., is not just a joint cause fallacy. That is, a person who is determined to achieve will pursue an education, health, etc. Those that are not driven won't pursue any of those things. The lazy guy is not going to get an education and is not going to put in the effort for good health. The true cause of the educational and other achievements may well be within the individual themselves.
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I agree with the above to an extent. But what of those that do not need degrees for the careers they choose? They can still be experts in their fields, they can still be successful and driven. Like I said, your above point is valid to a degree.... but it is not a determining factor in longer life etc... as Jarod asserts.
 
Superfreak said:
I agree with the above to an extent. But what of those that do not need degrees for the careers they choose? They can still be experts in their fields, they can still be successful and driven. Like I said, your above point is valid to a degree.... but it is not a determining factor in longer life etc... as Jarod asserts.
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You are confusing what I said. A driven person could be driven to do any number of things and none in particular. They could have a desire to achieve education, wealth, fitness, athletic, musical, etc., goals.

A driven person might have a desire to become an expert in their field and no desire to go through formal education (maybe they see no value in it).

My point is, the achiever or driven person in one area is more likely to achieve in other areas. A person who is willing to put in the effort to get a formal education (or educate themselves, does not really matter) is more likely to be willing to put in the effort to achieve other goals, e.g., health or wealth. The person that has no drive, has no drive. That person won't be likely to have an education or good health because they are not willing to put in the effort that either of these things require.

So, the idea that education leads to good health maybe a joint cause fallacy. Both are caused by some other factor, in this case, drive or ambition.
 
RStringfield said:
You are confusing what I said. A driven person could be driven to do any number of things and none in particular. They could have a desire to achieve education, wealth, fitness, athletic, musical, etc., goals.

A driven person might have a desire to become an expert in their field and no desire to go through formal education (maybe they see no value in it).

My point is, the achiever or driven person in one area is more likely to achieve in other areas. A person who is willing to put in the effort to get a formal education (or educate themselves, does not really matter) is more likely to be willing to put in the effort to achieve other goals, e.g., health or wealth. The person that has no drive, has no drive. That person won't be likely to have an education or good health because they are not willing to put in the effort that either of these things require.

So, the idea that education leads to good health maybe a joint cause fallacy. Both are caused by some other factor, in this case, drive or ambition.
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you are correct. I misread what you stated. I do agree with the above.
 
Solitary said:
It may not be that the education is the reason for the other problems.

In my opinion, it is more likely that the same thing that prevented them from getting a good education is what prevents them from guarding their health, eating well or whatever.
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Thats a good point.
 
Superfreak said:
I agree with the above to an extent. But what of those that do not need degrees for the careers they choose? They can still be experts in their fields, they can still be successful and driven. Like I said, your above point is valid to a degree.... but it is not a determining factor in longer life etc... as Jarod asserts.
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You keep equating having a degree with being educated, they are not the same thing.
 
Jarod said:
You keep equating having a degree with being educated, they are not the same thing.
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When people talk about the educated vs uneducated, they are typically referring to formal education. Not knowledge learned outside of the system. You yourself kept mentioning people with advanced degrees when discussing the educated.

Regardless, this is not significant to the discussion. Education and access to resources are not necessary for success. Success is subjective.
 
I am educated. I make about $40,000 per year. I own my own place, have a family and two vehicles. Am I successful? That's subjective. Could I make more money with what I know? You betcha. Am I happy? To me that is the real question of success. I am thrilled to be where I am at.

Health? Mine is more influenced by genetics, I think. My parents both have had heart problems, my mother was a diabetic, two of my three brothers had to have heart bypass surgery before they were 50. All three brothers are diabetic. So far my sister (oldest) and me (youngest) haven't developed any of these problems. I do eat well (what I am supposed to and avoid what I should) most of the time and I get some exercise. Doc says that this is just prolonging the inevitable but encourages me to keep it up.

My point is that neither my health or my happiness is tied to how smart I am (or educated if that is what you want) but more to other factors like attitude and genetics.
 
Superfreak said:
When people talk about the educated vs uneducated, they are typically referring to formal education. Not knowledge learned outside of the system. You yourself kept mentioning people with advanced degrees when discussing the educated.

Regardless, this is not significant to the discussion. Education and access to resources are not necessary for success. Success is subjective.
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Success is subjective, evolutionary success is objective.
 
In an evolutionary sense I guess success can be evaluated based on how much you reproduce... So maybe the more educated you are the less successfull you are in an evolutionary sense.

But what my question is, is what does that mean for the species.
 
Jarod said:
In an evolutionary sense I guess success can be evaluated based on how much you reproduce... So maybe the more educated you are the less successfull you are in an evolutionary sense.

But what my question is, is what does that mean for the species.
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That makes no sense either....

So the woman with 14 kids is an example of evolutionary success to you?
 
It's true. Just go to Missouri and visit Wal-Mart. Whenever I stepped into one of those buildings I was immediately one of the best educated people on the premises. I was also one of the only people there without a litter of children trailing them. I was also one of the few people there under 300 lbs it felt like.

Seriously, I dunno, but I do believe some parts of this country are genetically behind other parts.
 
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