Jobs vs. Work

Watermark said:
That would cost 75 trillion dollars dixie.
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There are not 300 million taxpayers in the U.S. The population of the U.S. is about 300 million last I heard but that includes children and possibly even legal residents who are not citizens. So that would cut your figure down to some extent and Dixie's figure of $250k is probably quite a bit higher than would really be necessary. I'd be willing to think that $100k/taxpayer would do the trick and if that is still too high of a cost, a lottery program to distribute $100k to say 500,000 taxpayers would be less than the current plan, and I am quite confident that it would do more to stimulate the economy than the $789 Billion negotiated by the two houses of Congress yesterday.

If Congress felt those figures were too high or too low they could play with either number, the dollar figure or the number of winners.

Unfortunately, Congess is working on a payback system and they are not interested in paying back the taxpayers but rather those who got them where they are today.

Immie
 
people still don't learn from history. Here is why this 'stimulus' is not going to work.

First stimulus last year, checks back from your tax return, people didn't spend it on extra items, they spent it on debt or saved it. So, whats the gov do for the next one? provide it to the financial sector that's dwindling and failing, but what do they do? stash and save it instead of lending it providing zero stimulus to the economy. So, whats the gov do now? provide billions to financial sectors again (now that they have plenty of money to allay fears of going under) and other 'infrastructure' projects that will provide jobs to reduce unemployment, however, those jobs will not provide the workers with the pay necessary to provide economic stimulus by letting them buy big screen tvs, cars, computers, and homes. It will only provide them with the cash to pay off debt they owe the financial sectors, providing those sectors with even MORE taxpayer dollars. Then, when the projects are done and the people laid off, we get to start the whole damn cycle over again.

Like Asshat said, we're a nation stuck on stupid.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
First stimulus last year, checks back from your tax return, people didn't spend it on extra items, they spent it on debt or saved it. So, whats the gov do for the next one? provide it to the financial sector that's dwindling and failing, but what do they do? stash and save it instead of lending it providing zero stimulus to the economy. So, whats the gov do now? provide billions to financial sectors again (now that they have plenty of money to allay fears of going under) and other 'infrastructure' projects that will provide jobs to reduce unemployment, however, those jobs will not provide the workers with the pay necessary to provide economic stimulus by letting them buy big screen tvs, cars, computers, and homes. It will only provide them with the cash to pay off debt they owe the financial sectors, providing those sectors with even MORE taxpayer dollars. Then, when the projects are done and the people laid off, we get to start the whole damn cycle over again.
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HAHA

But most of the infrastructure spending is going to direct spending to BUY the stuff to build the infrastructure. And it's stupid to say that once they're "laid off" the economy goes back to where it was before - it's not like they're some sort of keystone to the new, stable, working economy after all.

Libertarians never learn. It's insane how many depression right-wingers have caused.
 
Dixie, why dont you just call your best friend Zell, you can come up with a third of a plan, your buddy Rebel can come up with a third of a plan, and Zell can come up with a third of a plan and then you will have a full plan...!

Then the economic disaster caused by a combo of Carter, Clinton and Obama policies will be fixed!
 
Watermark said:
HAHA

But most of the infrastructure spending is going to direct spending to BUY the stuff to build the infrastructure. And it's stupid to say that once they're "laid off" the economy goes back to where it was before - it's not like they're some sort of keystone to the new, stable, working economy after all.

Libertarians never learn. It's insane how many depression right-wingers have caused.
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Watermark is the perfect example of our nation stuck on stupid. :clap:
 
Immanuel said:
There are not 300 million taxpayers in the U.S. The population of the U.S. is about 300 million last I heard but that includes children and possibly even legal residents who are not citizens.
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He didn't say taxpayers. He said "Americans".

Immanuel said:
So that would cut your figure down to some extent
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33 trillion. Actually, if the entire stimulus package were being given out in direct aid, it would be about 8k for every America (which would then be saved). But about 3k in tax cuts (which is going to be saved) is going out to every American anyway. Conservatives just don't understand the absurdity of the government going into debt just so that people can save.

Immanuel said:
and Dixie's figure of $250k is probably quite a bit higher than would really be necessary. I'd be willing to think that $100k/taxpayer would do the trick
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About 15 trillion.

Immanuel said:
and if that is still too high of a cost, a lottery program to distribute $100k to say 500,000 taxpayers would be less than the current plan
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How the hell did you come up with a lottery and why the minuscule 500k?

Immanuel said:
, and I am quite confident that it would do more to stimulate the economy than the $789 Billion negotiated by the two houses of Congress yesterday.
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Really. You are QUITE CONFIDENT? That assures me.

If Congress felt those figures were too high or too low they could play with either number, the dollar figure or the number of winners.

Immanuel said:
Unfortunately, Congess is working on a payback system and they are not interested in paying back the taxpayers but rather those who got them where they are today.
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Stimulus /= bailout

Immie[/QUOTE]
 
Jarod said:
Dixie, why dont you just call your best friend Zell, you can come up with a third of a plan, your buddy Rebel can come up with a third of a plan, and Zell can come up with a third of a plan and then you will have a full plan...!

Then the economic disaster caused by a combo of Carter, Clinton and Obama policies will be fixed!
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That's just brilliant Jarhead. It's a classic example of what now passes for "debate" in liberal circles today. This board is full of this shit, and I think people are starting to grow tired of it and bored with it. If you are not capable of articulating an original thought or idea, and not willing to actually discuss the important topics of the day, why don't you go find a nice video game to play or something?

See... here's the thing I don't think you comprehend, you guys are in a 'leadership' role now. The time to hurl personal ad homenim attacks at your adversaries was over in November of last year. It simply doesn't work for you anymore. It was cute and witty back when you were trying to gain political ground, but now you are in a different position, and like your president, you are totally clueless on how to act. If this behavior continues, I predict your future as leaders will be short lived.

I'm putting you back on my ignore list, because frankly, I don't see any benefit in reading the same tired old insults from you day after day, and I can have intellectual conversations with others here, who seem to understand and comprehend the importance of the issues at hand.

Buh-bye! :cool:
 
Watermark said:
He didn't say taxpayers. He said "Americans".
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Then adjust the plan. That is what Congress is good at right?



Watermark said:
33 trillion. Actually, if the entire stimulus package were being given out in direct aid, it would be about 8k for every America (which would then be saved). But about 3k in tax cuts (which is going to be saved) is going out to every American anyway. Conservatives just don't understand the absurdity of the government going into debt just so that people can save.
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Seems like liberals don't either.


Watermark said:
About 15 trillion.
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Again, that is why the plan is adjustable.



Watermark said:
How the hell did you come up with a lottery and why the minuscule 500k?
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Simple... you want to stimulate the economy. You can't afford to give every American $250k. Liberals think $2 Trillion (adding in Wednesday's announcement by the President for another Trillion) ought to do the trick. Giving it to banks and large corporations who have proven themselves to be unworthy of the effort is not going to do the trick. So, let Congress come up with a nunber they think we need and divide it up by the dollar figure/"winner" and give it to people who will put it to use. Most winners are not going to "save" it, they will spend it.

By the way, welfare recipients, Social Security recipients etc. are included in the taxpayer category and would be eligible for their share of the "winnings"

Watermark said:
Really. You are QUITE CONFIDENT? That assures me.
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Well, since the give away plan offered by your messiah does assure you, that doesn't really bother me.


Watermark said:
Stimulus /= bailout
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This stimulus plan = thank you funds to those who put our leaders in office.

Immie
 
Dixie said:
And you can keep running around like a little smart ass, repeating this line like you have with "1/3" until people grow sick of it too. The truth is, when all is said and done, and you factor in the enormous amounts of interest we will have to eventually repay, we could have easily given every taxpayer... dare I say, every American, $250k or more, and come out better. Not only would it have cost less, it would have stimulated the economy more!
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That would be over $75 TRILLION dixie
 
Watermark said:
He didn't say taxpayers. He said "Americans".



33 trillion. Actually, if the entire stimulus package were being given out in direct aid, it would be about 8k for every America (which would then be saved). But about 3k in tax cuts (which is going to be saved) is going out to every American anyway. Conservatives just don't understand the absurdity of the government going into debt just so that people can save.



About 15 trillion.



How the hell did you come up with a lottery and why the minuscule 500k?



Really. You are QUITE CONFIDENT? That assures me.

If Congress felt those figures were too high or too low they could play with either number, the dollar figure or the number of winners.



Stimulus /= bailout

Immie
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[/QUOTE]

Waterhead, have you crunched the numbers on your Bob The Builder Calculator yet? I know interest amortization is a heavy subject for you, but try to comprehend, the money being spent will have to be paid back to whom we borrow it from. Most all lenders charge a thing we call "interest" on loans, and this compounds annually. I think I read somewhere that the interest for one year, on the current trillion dollar spend-o-rama is going to be in the neighborhood of $300 billion. This will have to be repaid along with the principle, and right now, we can't even pay the bills we have, which is why they call it a "deficit" and why we currently have a "national debt." I realize you live in some far out fantasy world, where money just magically appears at our government's whim, but in the real world where the rest of us live, this is not the case. When you add up the totals of all the bailouts and stimuli... we are over $3 trillion and growing... with no end in sight. By the time we are able to wrench the checkbook out of the hands of the liberals, it will likely be close to $10 trillion. When you consider the interest and principle, amortized over 40 years, which is optimistic for possibly repaying the debt, it comes to well over $250k per taxpayer, and probably closer to $500k per American, when all is said and done.

So you morons can mock me and laugh at me all you like, the bottom line is, I haven't said anything all that outrageous. We could have given every taxpayer $250k and probably saved some money, while stimulating the economy immensely.
 
Dixie's original comment (pre-spin):

"Well it can sound dumb, but if you total the amounts of the various "bailouts" and "stimulus" packages, and divide them by the number of US taxpayers, you get $250k per taxpayer! "
 
Onceler said:
Dixie's original comment (pre-spin):

"Well it can sound dumb, but if you total the amounts of the various "bailouts" and "stimulus" packages, and divide them by the number of US taxpayers, you get $250k per taxpayer! "
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There is no spin, I assumed you were intelligent enough to realize the trillions of dollars we don't have, will have to be borrowed, and lenders generally charge interest for loaning money. I guess I shouldn't have assumed you were that intelligent. Sorry, my bad!
 
Dixie said:
There is no spin, I assumed you were intelligent enough to realize the trillions of dollars we don't have, will have to be borrowed, and lenders generally charge interest for loaning money. I guess I shouldn't have assumed you were that intelligent. Sorry, my bad!
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Sure, Dix. I believe you.
 
Dixie said:
There is no spin, I assumed you were intelligent enough to realize the trillions of dollars we don't have, will have to be borrowed, and lenders generally charge interest for loaning money. I guess I shouldn't have assumed you were that intelligent. Sorry, my bad!
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What's the interest rate on T-bills Dix?
 

Waterhead, have you crunched the numbers on your Bob The Builder Calculator yet? I know interest amortization is a heavy subject for you, but try to comprehend, the money being spent will have to be paid back to whom we borrow it from. Most all lenders charge a thing we call "interest" on loans, and this compounds annually. I think I read somewhere that the interest for one year, on the current trillion dollar spend-o-rama is going to be in the neighborhood of $300 billion. This will have to be repaid along with the principle, and right now, we can't even pay the bills we have, which is why they call it a "deficit" and why we currently have a "national debt." I realize you live in some far out fantasy world, where money just magically appears at our government's whim, but in the real world where the rest of us live, this is not the case. When you add up the totals of all the bailouts and stimuli... we are over $3 trillion and growing... with no end in sight. By the time we are able to wrench the checkbook out of the hands of the liberals, it will likely be close to $10 trillion. When you consider the interest and principle, amortized over 40 years, which is optimistic for possibly repaying the debt, it comes to well over $250k per taxpayer, and probably closer to $500k per American, when all is said and done.

So you morons can mock me and laugh at me all you like, the bottom line is, I haven't said anything all that outrageous. We could have given every taxpayer $250k and probably saved some money, while stimulating the economy immensely.[/QUOTE]

No dixie, your math still doesn't work. If you give every tax payer $250k that equates to $25 TRILLION. Whether you give taxpayers money directly or through this stimulus plan, you are still borrowing the money to do so. One way you accumulate $1-3 Trillion in additional debt, the other you accumulate $25 Trillion.

Side note... One years interest on $1 Trillion is nowhere close to $300 billion. That would be an interest rate of 30%. The current 30 year treasury is yielding under 4%. Which would put the interest under $40 billion.
 
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