Jobs vs. Work

[Onceler]

The "stimulus" isn't going to turn the ship... the ship is on a one way course to the United Socialist Republic of America! When you GIVE people money, who have NOT PAID TAX, that IS NOT a "tax cut" moron! That is a Government Entitlement Program!

If the idea is to "create jobs", then why is nothing being done to actually create jobs? All I see is an effort to create work, paid for by government, with tax dollars we don't have and can't afford. There is no job creation! There is work creation! That was the whole point of this thread, to point out the difference in the two. You think, because the government is going to provide work for a few people, that is going to "stimulate" the economy.. but it's like taking buckets of water from the deep end of the pool, to the shallow end, in an attempt to increase the water level. The government is paying for these created new jobs, with money the government is having to borrow from China at high interest. Do you not grasp that detail? In order to actually STIMULATE the economy, you have to do something to create private sector incentive to create actual new jobs through growth... then you are putting the hose pipe in the pool to increase the water level.

See, Yurt. This is why I don't 'debate' with Dixie.

Dixie hasn't even read the plans. He has no idea what is in them.

This is such a poor characterization of what they have in mind; it comes straight from talk radio. Do you think that the tax cuts are only for lower income groups? Do you think the jobs are all "government" jobs?

You simply don't get it, and, as usual, are choosing not to try.

$250K

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Do you really have any idea whether the jobs the stimulus creates are useful or not or are you just saying so because it's useful to your argument and you really have no fucking idea?



Not really necessary to ask the question.

I already know that government created jobs will not stimulate the economy. If they did, the former Soviet Union would still be thriving and prospering, and they are not. That is EXACTLY what they tried to do! IT FAILED!

 

[Onceler]

I already know that government created jobs will not stimulate the economy. If they did, the former Soviet Union would still be thriving and prospering, and they are not. That is EXACTLY what they tried to do! IT FAILED!

This is so dishonest, so over-the-top, so alarmist.

The Soviet Union did it on a systemic basis, and virtually controlled industry & the individual. This is a friggin' stimulus plan, that is 35% tax cuts.

Get a grip.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Which is about what the $10 trillion Obama Spend-o-rama will eventually cost the taxpayer when you factor in the interest over the next 40-60 years, IF we can pay it off by then, which I doubt we will!

Wow.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Alright, if you can count the interest from 70 years from now for 800 billion as eqalling 75 trillion (not indexed to inflation), what can I do with the interest from 75 trillions?

You're really calling for 100 quadrillion of spending Dixie.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Alright, if you can count the interest from 70 years from now for 800 billion as eqalling 75 trillion (not indexed to inflation), what can I do with the interest from 75 trillions?

You're really calling for 100 quadrillion of spending Dixie.

why don't you explain the current trillion spending NOW....water

oh wait, your leader and his tax cheats are calling for about another 2 trillion.....

explain that

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

why don't you explain the current trillion spending NOW....water

oh wait, your leader and his tax cheats are calling for about another 2 trillion.....

explain that

Do you understand the context of that being in response to dixie yurt?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

This is so dishonest, so over-the-top, so alarmist.

The Soviet Union did it on a systemic basis, and virtually controlled industry & the individual. This is a friggin' stimulus plan, that is 35% tax cuts.

Get a grip.

There is nothing dishonest about it. The current "stimulus" plan is to create work, funded by the central government. This is how the Soviets tried to operate from 1929 until the mid 90's, almost to the letter. It is not "alarmist" it is the actual reality of what is happening with our government now.

It is NOT a stimulus plan, because it doesn't stimulate anything except more expansive government, more government debt, and more government spending. It does nothing to create one single solitary REAL job. The "tax cuts" you keep cheerleading, are primarily tax "rebates" to people who didn't pay a tax to begin with. The people who pay the bulk of the taxes are going to see a dramatic increase in their tax rates, that was a cornerstone promise of the Obama-Biden campaign. These people are the ones who actually "create jobs" in America!

You say the difference between this "stimulus" plan and what the Soviets did, was that the Soviets did it in a "systemic" way....but... we go back to the question STY asked, what happens when the money runs out for these government funded jobs? My guess is, unless you want to deal with massive unemployment, you have to make the 'government-funded work' permanent, which then makes the program "systemic" in nature. So the systemic part is coming, it is inevitable. And since the taxpayer will be essentially paying for their own jobs, you will pretty much have a textbook definition of communism, and the very system which failed in the Soviet Union.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Alright, if you can count the interest from 70 years from now for 800 billion as eqalling 75 trillion (not indexed to inflation), what can I do with the interest from 75 trillions?

You're really calling for 100 quadrillion of spending Dixie.

First of all, the total of the "bailouts" and "stimulus" packages to date, is somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 trillion already. This doesn't include nationalized healthcare, or any of the other massive spending programs promised by Obama, it doesn't include fixing Social Security or Education, which will both inevitably have to be done, and it doesn't include the remaining 3 years and 11 months left in the liberal Obama administration, and God knows what else they will dream up to spend trillions on. At the present rate, I think $10 trillion is somewhat 'conservative' as an estimate. Now get your trusty calculator out, and figure up the interest on $10 trillion over the next 40-60 years, which again, is a fairly 'conservative' repayment plan, and one I doubt we can meet... but for the sake of calculation, let's assume we can and do pay it off in that time. The total REAL cost will be far greater than $250k per taxpayer.

Where you get that I am "calling for 100 quadrillion of spending," I have no idea, I don't advocate ANY spending by the federal government! We need to CUT spending! We need to be giving tax incentives to business, so they will be inclined to create new REAL jobs, which would stimulate the economy. We need to be tackling the national debt, not seeing how fast we can raise it! In short, we continue to do the very opposite of what we should do, and eventually it will bite us in the ass. If our country had some enormous surplus, and a massive windfall annually, all of this pie-in-the-sky liberalism would be okay, we could manage to deal with it and still survive. But that isn't the case, we are TRILLIONS in debt already, and adding TRILLIONS to it daily now! Now, I know you pinhead idiots think the money is going to come from the greedy rich republicans who make over $250k per year, but I got news for you, we don't have that many "rich" people! The money is coming from China, mainly, and they will expect to be repaid at some point in time. If our currency completely collapses, that will be virtually impossible. What happens then? I'm not exactly sure, but you might want to learn to speak Chinese.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

The stupidest thing recently is the concept of stimulating the american economy without buying american. We now have "Trickle Sideways Economics".

 

[Cancel3]

Even if we taxed corporations ZERO %, we could not compete labor cost wise with the labor costs in 2nd and 3rd world countries.

But a literate and better educated labor force would be worth the small increase in costs.

A survey of the top corporations in Europe and Japan asked whatthey would do if the US went to a consumption tax.

70% said they would open a factory or plant in the US. 15% said they would relocate their corporation to the US completely.

 

[Cancel3]

Careful... you're starting to sound Conservative!

Oh good, another fool who thinks he knows what I "sound" like.

 

[Cancel7]

It is amazing to me how many highly educated and sophisticated liberals don't understand the difference between jobs and work. Specifically, the difference between jobs created by the private sector, capitalist enterprise growth and expansion, and tax payer funded government work provided to the masses.

You see... one is the result of real economic growth and prosperity, and results in stimulation to the economy through consumer spending and more taxes being paid. The other is manufactured and sustained by central government planning, and does not stimulate growth or prosperity. If it did, the former Soviet Union would still be around, because that is essentially all they did.

Now, it is true, either way, people get a pay check, but when the government provides jobs to meet the demand of some mandated program or project, the government has to sustain that expense, and "the government" is the tax payer, for all intents and purposes. When private enterprise creates real jobs, it is the result of expansion and growth, and the private enterprise is creating increased profits to pay for the new jobs. This frees the government to spend tax money on other things, instead of sustaining employment for the workers.

Job creation is a good thing, work creation by central planning, is a Soviet Communist thing. The liberals have obviously decided to follow the model of a failed socialist government, while pretending they have done something great.

You're kidding me? This Michael Steele bonehead moment of the week is actually catching on with the right?

Wow there is nothing they won't swallow and regurgitate huh?

 

[Topspin]

this is brilliant, Alabama wasn't embarrassed enough know it's lowly graduate Dixie is parroting Michael Seele. LOFL

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Want to stimulate the economy? Institute the Fair Tax Act, and attract the businesses back to the US.

Or even better, cut the fat from the government, cut spending and let people KEEP the money that they earn. The idea that we are too stupid to spend it on our own is an insult.

Regresive tax cuts are a failed method Sol. There are only so many homes, cars, boats and planes a rich person can buy. Their impact as a stimulus is limited. Progressive tax cuts geared towards the middle class have a much larger impact because #1. a far greater number will receive those tax cuts and #2 they will spend that money.

Having said that, an immeadiate stimulus impact is needed and it's doubtful that tax cuts alone will provide that stimulus.

A combination of public works spending programs and progressive tax cuts is a proven method.

Keep in mind that most of the public is aware that supply side theory is a failed economic theory and doesn't really belong in this stimulus package.

 

[Cancel7]

It's called "stimulus" but nothing is being stimulated. All that is being done is, more money is being borrowed at high interest from China, to provide some temp work for people. It's one thing to borrow money from Chin and drive up the already bloated national debt if we can get to kill some brown people and burn alive some brown children. If McCain had been elected and said "we got to attack Iran" I'd respond with "Get those Chineese Bankers on the phone post hasty, we got brown children to burn to death!"

But for jobs? The whole thing is a charade and a sham!

There's the real story.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Darla, why don't you take your repressed closet racist ass elsewhere? I mean, how much more obvious can you be with it, dear? How many sheets do you have hanging in your closet?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

this is brilliant, Alabama wasn't embarrassed enough know it's lowly graduate Dixie is parroting Michael Seele. LOFL

Well Spinhead, you can attribute my commentary to Michael Steele all day long, if that makes you feel better, but nothing I said isn't true, and you've offered nothing to refute it in any way. It's just more of the typical liberal blathering combined with character assassination, designed to fool the stupid. While poor saplings like Solitary are stupid enough to listen to your tripe, most rational and thinking Americans aren't.

Government funding work for people, is NOT job creation, and will NOT stimulate a damn thing, except liberal talking points and more socialism. For the record, I think you smarter pinheads know this, you fully realize this is a farce, but it advances the liberal agenda of turning America into a Socialist nation, so you don't care! As long as we can move America closer to the former Soviet Union in policy, you are all happy little communists, and everything is working out beautifully. It doesn't really matter to you, that our grandkids are going to be working just to pay their taxes, hell... that's perfect in your communist socialist model! It puts the final death nail in capitalism and free enterprise! Once we are so far in debt we can't possibly repay it, well... I guess we just all have to work for the state and be grateful to them for whatever morsels they feel compelled to dole out for us.

Damn if McCarthy wasn't absolutely right!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Regresive tax cuts are a failed method Sol. There are only so many homes, cars, boats and planes a rich person can buy. Their impact as a stimulus is limited. Progressive tax cuts geared towards the middle class have a much larger impact because #1. a far greater number will receive those tax cuts and #2 they will spend that money.

Having said that, an immeadiate stimulus impact is needed and it's doubtful that tax cuts alone will provide that stimulus.

A combination of public works spending programs and progressive tax cuts is a proven method.

Keep in mind that most of the public is aware that supply side theory is a failed economic theory and doesn't really belong in this stimulus package.

You should just refrain from posting. I mean, when you can't even propagandize without sounding like a fool, it's time to quit. Most of your contemporaries are head and shoulders above you at presenting liberal idiocy and making it sound believable. When I read your posts, it's almost as if you are trying to convince yourself of the lies and distortions you're spewing. I actually think you do your 'cause' more harm than good.

 

[uscitizen]

Jobs... Well somewhere around 30% of the working people in the USA work for the government in one way or another.
Military, military suppliers, teachers, aircraft manufacturing, ship building, weapons manufacturers, many health care workers, construction workers, fire control, And may more either work directly for the govt or their job exists becuase of the govt. Some of the auto industry can even be attributed to the govt as they buy lots of vehicles.

Even Dixie was in the green zone dodging IED"s working for the govt.