Nice

[Cancel 2016.2]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html


"There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years;"

How is this friggin stimulus?

"$50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts;"

I am all for supporting the arts... but this is just ignorant to put this in an economic stimulus package.

"$400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects."

WTF??? How about we take that $2.8 billion and use it to invest in long term alt energy projects... such as solar, wind etc... Why the hell do we need to pay for ANOTHER global warming study?

" There's even $650 million on top of the billions already doled out to pay for digital TV conversion coupons."

WHY?

"Oh, and don't forget education, which would get $66 billion more. That's more than the entire Education Department spent a mere 10 years ago and is on top of the doubling under President Bush. Some $6 billion of this will subsidize university building projects. If you think the intention here is to help kids learn, the House declares on page 257 that "No recipient . . . shall use such funds to provide financial assistance to students to attend private elementary or secondary schools." Horrors: Some money might go to nonunion teachers."

Wow... lets not favor the unions too much more... why not let the parents choose which schools are best for their students and then distribute that money on a per kid basis to the schools the parents choose.

"Another "stimulus" secret is that some $252 billion is for income-transfer payments -- that is, not investments that arguably help everyone, but cash or benefits to individuals for doing nothing at all. There's $81 billion for Medicaid, $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits, $20 billion for food stamps, and $83 billion for the earned income credit for people who don't pay income tax. While some of that may be justified to help poorer Americans ride out the recession, they aren't job creators."

While, as stated, this will certainly provide a stop gap for the poor, it is not going to solve any long term problems.

"Here's another lu-lu: Congress wants to spend $600 million more for the federal government to buy new cars. Uncle Sam already spends $3 billion a year on its fleet of 600,000 vehicles. Congress also wants to spend $7 billion for modernizing federal buildings and facilities. The Smithsonian is targeted to receive $150 million; we love the Smithsonian, too, but this is a job creator?"

Amazing....

 

[Onceler]

The only thing I really have a problem with is the global warming. What's wrong with building campus housing? The requires actual workers, you know.

As for arts, do you know that they represent American's 2nd largest export, and employs millions of Americans?

Too much knee-jerk reaction about things that are usually associated with "liberals." If something gets more money & can employ new people because of it, that's what it's supposed to do.

 

[Bonestorm]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html


"There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years;"

How is this friggin stimulus?

"$50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts;"

I am all for supporting the arts... but this is just ignorant to put this in an economic stimulus package.

"$400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects."

WTF??? How about we take that $2.8 billion and use it to invest in long term alt energy projects... such as solar, wind etc... Why the hell do we need to pay for ANOTHER global warming study?

" There's even $650 million on top of the billions already doled out to pay for digital TV conversion coupons."

WHY?

"Oh, and don't forget education, which would get $66 billion more. That's more than the entire Education Department spent a mere 10 years ago and is on top of the doubling under President Bush. Some $6 billion of this will subsidize university building projects. If you think the intention here is to help kids learn, the House declares on page 257 that "No recipient . . . shall use such funds to provide financial assistance to students to attend private elementary or secondary schools." Horrors: Some money might go to nonunion teachers."

Wow... lets not favor the unions too much more... why not let the parents choose which schools are best for their students and then distribute that money on a per kid basis to the schools the parents choose.

"Another "stimulus" secret is that some $252 billion is for income-transfer payments -- that is, not investments that arguably help everyone, but cash or benefits to individuals for doing nothing at all. There's $81 billion for Medicaid, $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits, $20 billion for food stamps, and $83 billion for the earned income credit for people who don't pay income tax. While some of that may be justified to help poorer Americans ride out the recession, they aren't job creators."

While, as stated, this will certainly provide a stop gap for the poor, it is not going to solve any long term problems.

"Here's another lu-lu: Congress wants to spend $600 million more for the federal government to buy new cars. Uncle Sam already spends $3 billion a year on its fleet of 600,000 vehicles. Congress also wants to spend $7 billion for modernizing federal buildings and facilities. The Smithsonian is targeted to receive $150 million; we love the Smithsonian, too, but this is a job creator?"

Amazing....

Hilarious.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The only thing I really have a problem with is the global warming. What's wrong with building campus housing? The requires actual workers, you know.

As for arts, do you know that they represent American's 2nd largest export, and employs millions of Americans?

Too much knee-jerk reaction about things that are usually associated with "liberals." If something gets more money & can employ new people because of it, that's what it's supposed to do.

I did not highlight campus housing... I pointed out the portion that stated that the funds could not go to private schools. That is where my problem with that money lies.

I did not know that about the arts... do you have something to back that up? I would like to read up on it. thanks.

This money should be going primarily into the infrastructure buildout. It would provide the near term jobs production and also have the long term benefit to the country.

Spending $252 billion on supplements to welfare, medicaid etc... has NO job production. It is nothing different than Bush sending out checks. It may provide a quick burst to the economy, but nothing that is sustainable.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Hilarious.

Good to see you offering up your normal level of intellect. No response? Just going to play it off like its no big deal? Already becoming an Obama apologist?

 

[Cancel7]

Good to see you offering up your normal level of intellect. No response? Just going to play it off like its no big deal? Already becoming an Obama apologist?

Dont' you ever get tired of him beating you? I mean, to see you openly begging for it like this.

 

[Onceler]

I don't have stats on the arts; I just read that in an article the other day. I don't really feel like searching it.

As for the quick burst stuff, I'm not as opposed as you are. I think it's okay to mix some quick burst measures in with more long-term solutions; try everything. I am not an economist by any means, but there is such disagreement in the field on this; everyone thinks they're right, and everyone has some historical model they can point to, but there isn't really a precedent for the current crisis.

Throw everything against the wall; stay w/ what sticks. That's my current economic platform.

 

[Bonestorm]

Good to see you offering up your normal level of intellect. No response? Just going to play it off like its no big deal? Already becoming an Obama apologist?

Not really. I'm just not inclined to get worked up over $50 million to the NEA and I'm sure as shit not going to take marching orders from the Wall Street Journal Op-Ed page without first researching what is actually in the bill as opposed to what they prefer to highlight and how they characterize the bill. You should do the same.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Dont' you ever get tired of him beating you? I mean, to see you openly begging for it like this.

Shouldn't you be in the kitchen baking me some brownies?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Not really. I'm just not inclined to get worked up over $50 million to the NEA and I'm sure as shit not going to take marching orders from the Wall Street Journal Op-Ed page without first researching what is actually in the bill as opposed to what they prefer to highlight and how they characterize the bill. You should do the same.

That was ONE small portion of what I highlighted.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I don't have stats on the arts; I just read that in an article the other day. I don't really feel like searching it.

As for the quick burst stuff, I'm not as opposed as you are. I think it's okay to mix some quick burst measures in with more long-term solutions; try everything. I am not an economist by any means, but there is such disagreement in the field on this; everyone thinks they're right, and everyone has some historical model they can point to, but there isn't really a precedent for the current crisis.

Throw everything against the wall; stay w/ what sticks. That's my current economic platform.

I agree there are a wide range of opinions, but the quick burst stuff is essentially what Bush tried. It does not work as well as putting the money into job creation. Jobs that actually produce long term benefits for this country. Jobs that we HAVE to do in the next decade anyway and thus spending the money on those jobs NOW when the job market is loose is far better than trying to do it once the economy has recovered and the job market tightens again.

I know you are not opposed to the above, but when we over a quarter of the money being spent on the quick burst items again, that should cause you to pause and question it.

 

[Onceler]

I'll be the 1st to admit that this package is not quite what I anticipated, and that it appears they are trying to please everyone & might end up pleasing no one.

That said, there are over 500 legislators that probably have 500 different opinions on what the "perfect" package should look like. The only think most agree on is the need for alacrity, and that's something I support, as well.

As for the extra aid to low income families & stuff like that, I have never really opposed that, since those families spend any extra money they have almost immediately (been there, done that). Maybe it's an ineffective band aid on its own, but with everything else, it might have some effect. I'd prefer to see more aid/tax cuts for small businesses, but that's me.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I'll be the 1st to admit that this package is not quite what I anticipated, and that it appears they are trying to please everyone & might end up pleasing no one.

That said, there are over 500 legislators that probably have 500 different opinions on what the "perfect" package should look like. The only think most agree on is the need for alacrity, and that's something I support, as well.

As for the extra aid to low income families & stuff like that, I have never really opposed that, since those families spend any extra money they have almost immediately (been there, done that). Maybe it's an ineffective band aid on its own, but with everything else, it might have some effect. I'd prefer to see more aid/tax cuts for small businesses, but that's me.

Valid points. I agree with the last line especially.

This is what we get when a bunch of lawyers try to put together an economics package.

 

[Onceler]

I have to admit, my optimism is waning. This isn't a disappointment in Obama or the package. I'm just not sure if any package the gov't could produce can work much magic at this point. I hope it can.

America needs a boom. People are going to have almost no confidence without some new industry or revitalization of an old one making it happen. I doubt anything will ever match the internet; I have expressed cautious optimism on green tech, but I really don't know anymore. Things just seem to be spiraling.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I have to admit, my optimism is waning. This isn't a disappointment in Obama or the package. I'm just not sure if any package the gov't could produce can work much magic at this point. I hope it can.

America needs a boom. People are going to have almost no confidence without some new industry or revitalization of an old one making it happen. I doubt anything will ever match the internet; I have expressed cautious optimism on green tech, but I really don't know anymore. Things just seem to be spiraling.

I agree... this does not taint Obama himself... I was simply mocking Dung when I said that earlier in the thread.

The positives thus far... they stated clearly that they are not going to nationalize the banks. That provided a boost to the financial sector today. I am getting a sense that the Fed is going to bring out something unexpected in their commentary that might boost the market as well. Obviously it cannot be any more rate cuts, so this should be interesting.

The new industry you seek (as you already know) is alt energy R&D. The sector is ready to explode. If we have a concerted effort behind wind, solar, biofuels, fuel cells etc... it will provide that spark. Combine that with a true infrastructure buildout and the recovery will be a lot less painful both in the short and long run.

My biggest problem with this package right now is their implementation. There is talk that this money might be spent over the next five years or so. Big mistake. That is what Japan tried and they ended up in a 10 year recession followed by another 8 (so far) of relatively stagnant to moderate growth.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Is this really part of the stimulus? Or just the annual budget?

Are you just suggesting that because the budget now includes a stimulus we need to get rid of all Amtrack, art, and welfare payments? Stupid beyond words.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Is this really part of the stimulus? Or just the annual budget?

Are you just suggesting that because the budget now includes a stimulus we need to get rid of all Amtrack, art, and welfare payments? Stupid beyond words.

Seriously... you need to go get trolling 7.1... your version (trolling 2.0) is significantly outdated.

 

[Chapdog]

Put the entire amount into bio tech and alt energy. At the end of 8years we will be a superpower in those fields with jobs galore.

 

[Bonestorm]

I agree... this does not taint Obama himself... I was simply mocking Dung when I said that earlier in the thread.

The positives thus far... they stated clearly that they are not going to nationalize the banks. That provided a boost to the financial sector today. I am getting a sense that the Fed is going to bring out something unexpected in their commentary that might boost the market as well. Obviously it cannot be any more rate cuts, so this should be interesting.

The new industry you seek (as you already know) is alt energy R&D. The sector is ready to explode. If we have a concerted effort behind wind, solar, biofuels, fuel cells etc... it will provide that spark. Combine that with a true infrastructure buildout and the recovery will be a lot less painful both in the short and long run.

My biggest problem with this package right now is their implementation. There is talk that this money might be spent over the next five years or so. Big mistake. That is what Japan tried and they ended up in a 10 year recession followed by another 8 (so far) of relatively stagnant to moderate growth.

Your problem is that you spend too much time listening to the wrong people about what is and what isn't in this bill.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Your problem is that you spend too much time listening to the wrong people about what is and what isn't in this bill.

I'm sorry I didn't use commondreams.org or moveon.moron.... If you would like to participate in this conversation perhaps you could provide links to what YOU are reading so that we can all be as enlightened as you.