Holocaust denial poll results

Walt said:
The main problem with private schools is they can do all that, but not at the same time. Private schools that cost less drop students behind public schools by one month every year they go to the school. Private schools that do better than public schools cost two or three times as much. Private schools that graduate better students do so by graduating fewer students.

Now for the part you will find very upsetting. Charter schools can work well in places like NYC, where there are large concentrations of people with complex mass transit. In places like Kansas, or West Virginia, they have always failed badly.
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So passing and graduating students that should've failed is your solution, eh?
 
StoneByStone said:
But we do have enough information on things like the Armenian Genocide to teach it in schools. Yet we only talk about the Holocaust, slavery in America, and sometimes Europe's colonization.
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New Jersey School Board has holocaust and genocide curriculum that ranges widely from the killing fields of Cambodia, to USSR, to Armenia to across the world.

https://www.state.nj.us/education/holocaust/curriculum/

I have known about the Armenian genocide and the Cambodian killing fields since I was a teenager. I do not feel like they were hidden from me
 
Cypress said:
The study says it examined deaths at "ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories".

You assumed the study was only counting mortalities at death camps, aka "killing factories"..

Undoutedly, millions of Russians, Serbs, Poles, Ukrainians, Romani, died at slave labor sites due to starvation, disease, overwork, exposure.

My contention was that the Death Camps (aka, Auschwitz, Treblinka, et al) were primarily intended and used to exterminate Europe's Jewish population.

The fact that your study says that Romani and Slavs were sometimes (not frequently, often, or always) killed at the Death Camps is consistent with what I stated


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...the-holocaust-just-got-more-shocking.amp.html
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Perhaps you'd change your mind when you read something of the plea by the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem that the fate of the millions of Sinti and Roma Holocaust victims is recognised, not marginalized and obscured by the frequencies of Jewish narratives. Your notion that ' the long struggle for recognition ' somehow equates to a deliberated dilution of the Jewish narrative can hardly be leveled at the Central Holocaust Museum, can it .

Lest we forget;

The Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem has contributed greatly to ' the long struggle for recognition ' of Sinti and Roma victims of Nazism. Here , it documents the killing of Sinti and Roma children in the Łódź ghetto.

The Sinti and Roma, like the Jews, were subject to the discriminatory provisions of the Nuremberg Laws. They were declared second-class citizens by the Nazis. Any ties between ‘Zigeuner’ [‘gypsies’] and ‘Deutschblütige’, i.e. persons of German blood, were branded as ‘Rassenschande’ [‘miscegenation or racial defilement’] and subject to severe punishment.

https://www.sintiundroma.org/en/the-path-to-genocide/racial-ideology/

Roma in the Łódź ghetto
In November 1941 around 5,000 Roma mainly from the Austrian federal province of Burgenland were deported to Łódź (Litzmannstadt), where a separate ‘gypsy camp’ was set up within the ‘Jewish ghetto’. Within a matter of weeks more than 700 people fell victim to the atrocious living conditions and the outbreak of a typhus epidemic. In December 1941 and January 1942 the remaining inmates were all taken to the Chełmno extermination camp and asphyxiated in gas vans.

https://www.sintiundroma.org/en/the-path-to-genocide/in-the-ghettos/lodz-ghetto/

https://www.sintiundroma.org/en/set-en/en-021109/?id=2038&z=6

https://www.sintiundroma.org/en/set-en/en-021110/?id=2038&z=7
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Of course, I'm not singling you out for these omissions. It's very, very common. Mention the Holocaust and most people automatically think ' Jews '- without any knowledge whatsoever of the other 12- 14 million victims.
 
Cypress- how many people reading this do you think have turned off already and reverted to the ' Holocaust= Jews ' mindset ?

Camp section B II e at Auschwitz-Birkenau: the ‘gypsy camp’

Camp section B II e, referred to as the ‘gypsy camp’ by the SS, was part of the Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp. It comprised twenty barracks on either side of the main road inside the camp. In the so-called ‘residential barracks’ up to one thousand people were crowded together on three-storey wooden bunks. There were also ‘function barracks’ such as the sick-bay and the orderly room. This entire section of the camp was surrounded by an electrified barbed wire fence.

By early April 1943 more than 12,000 Sinti and Roma had arrived at the ‘gypsy camp’. The first mass gassings took place in March and May 1943, during which more than 2,700 men, women and children were killed using Zyklon B poison gas.

Daily life at the camp was characterised by the torture and terror meted out by the SS, carrying out hard labour on totally inadequate food rations, and the catastrophic hygiene conditions. The inmates had to look on helplessly while members of their family starved to death or succumbed to the inevitable outbreaks of diseases such as typhus. Almost ninety per cent of a total of 23,000 inmates at the ‘gypsy camp’ died there. Babies born at the camp and infants had virtually no chance of survival.

https://www.sintiundroma.org/en/auschwitz-birkenau-2/camp-section-b-ii-e-the-gypsy-camp/
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Irish said:
Guess you haven't seen all those videos of Antifa/BLM burning American flags, taking knees during the anthem, and playing alternative national anthems.

1619 project, etc.
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Taking the knee was a protest against police brutality. Do you support police brutality?

There are well over 300 million people in America and the percentage of those burning flags, etc. is miniscule.
 
moon said:
Cypress- how many people reading this do you think have turned off already and reverted to the ' Holocaust= Jews ' mindset ?
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I have never heard of sibtudrama.org
Publication in scholarly peer reviewed journals ensures that other experts in the field find the methodologies conclusions and data presented are credible.

The new links you give is consistent with the first link you gave, that romani were sometimes killed in the zyklon gas chambers, but it does nothing to debunk the historical consensus that the zyklon gas death camps were primarily intended to exterminate Europe's Jews.

Many "undesirables" languished in concentration camps and slave labor sites, many of whom died from starvation and exposure. Their stories need to be, and are, told.

I probably have more posts here about Nazi mistreatment of Slavic people, than I have of the Jewish experience in ww2.

Wrapping up: I surmise that every single educated person on this board is aware that the Nazis are responsible for the deaths of millions of Slavs, Romani, homosexuals, and other "undesirables". I do not think it is a closely guarded secret being hidden from people.
 
Cypress said:
New Jersey School Board has holocaust and genocide curriculum that ranges widely from the killing fields of Cambodia, to USSR, to Armenia to across the world.

https://www.state.nj.us/education/holocaust/curriculum/

I have known about the Armenian genocide and the Cambodian killing fields since I was a teenager. I do not feel like they were hidden from me
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It's not that they're hidden, it's that they aren't taught in most schools and they're rarely talked about in media.
 
Cypress said:
Wrapping up: I surmise that every single educated person on this board is aware that the Nazis are responsible for the deaths of millions of Slavs, Romani, homosexuals, and other "undesirables". I do not think it is a closely guarded secret being hidden from people.
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Unwrapping- they are clearly NOT aware that the ' undesirables ' massively outnumbered the Jewish victims. While not being ' a closely guarded secret ' that information is almost always omitted from most Holocaust narratives and swamped by the Jewish narrative on the occasions that it is mentioned. This thread would attest to that if not for our discussion.
 
StoneByStone said:
It's not that they're hidden, it's that they aren't taught in most schools and they're rarely talked about in media.
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Here is another State which mandates education on a range of historic genocides.

California Code, Education Code - EDC § 51226.3

"The Legislature encourages the incorporation of survivor, rescuer, liberator, and witness oral testimony into the teaching of human rights, the Holocaust, and genocide, including, but not limited to, the Armenian, Cambodian, Darfur, and Rwandan genocides."
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I do not know how old you are, but in the 1990s, the Rwandan Genocide and the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans were two of the top stories of the decade. There are even movies made about them.

In the 1980s, when news started coming out of Cambodia, the killing fields was a major news story of that decade, and books and movies were made about it.

On this board, I do not think I would be far off the mark to say the Gulag is discussed at least as often, and maybe more often, than the holocaust.
 
Old'N'Retired said:
I suppose what I was talking about was more along the lines of school vouchers. Simply choosing between two dealerships selling the same car will not make huge difference in the product purchased.

As long as there is only one choice available at no charge, the greatest number of folks enrolling their children will follow the path of least resistance.

When Private schools have the same cost factor to students' parents, that will help to solve the problems in our current wasteful and failing system.

Private schools currently cost less, graduate more, provide better grade outcomes and render better prepared graduates. If paid 1.5 times as much per student, like public schools, private schools will spring up everywhere.

They have shown they are just plain better and less costly. Yet, the government continues to demand failure wherever they can.

What's wrong with this picture?
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It depends upon the law in the state you live in but if the voucher is considered public money then any private school accepting a voucher student is now taking public money and that comes with strings attached.
 
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